ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I thought the rule of thumb was that race seats and 'regular' seatbelts were mostly fine, but modifying stock seats for harnesses was a big no-no.

On a few facebook groups, I've seen folks cut holes into stock seats and seal them off to fit harnesses through. It's pretty bizarre what folks think is acceptable for safety...

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Jeebus, no.

1. Door bars are not be used with OEM seats. You have a big steel tube against your unprotected hip. Minor side impact and you'll never walk again. Only use door bars with one piece FIA seats.
2. Sub belt anchor point(s) needs to be behind seat port. As yours it, the sub belt does nothing, you'll just slide forward.
3. Shoulder belts need to be anchored in seat ports designed for that. Those little straps will explode in any real impact and let your upper body slide sideways.
4. Basically, only use 5/6 pts with a one piece FIA seat. Waste of time trying to integrate with a floppy OEM seat.
5. I do not recommend using 5/6 points with adjustable seat rails unless they are competition specific locking rails.

Just a preference here but 5 pts suck. Not as safe and way less comfortable than 6 pts. Stay away from 6 points that use a wide metal bracket below the buckle. That's old school and only works for really fat guys. Schroth and most newer design 6 pts uses a fabric "Y" that is comfy, easy to use and the safest way to restrain your torso from submarining in a frontal impact.

MartinezA92

iTrader: (4)

Pretty good excuse to buy a seat and associated equipment. Not that I needed another one.

DeerHunter

Thanks all. I'll remove the door bars and harness until such time as I source proper seats.

Emilio, you might want to add the caveat about door bars coupled with OEM seats to your website. The current sample pic shown a stock seat and there's no contra-indication in the text (which looks like boiler-plate from Hard Dog).

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Guilty as charged. Cut and paste copy and pic from Bethnia's site

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Very old pics, but the Kirkeys sit much lower relative the bar. Stock seatbelt did not remain.

apexanimal

Emilio -

do you have a preferred competition specific locking rail? I've been looking all over for something that's recommended but its hard to pin down...

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

Nuuuuuu... Just get seattttssss!

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Swat I wuz thinkin'.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Can't recall the last time I saw some. Nielex had a locking rail at one point. There was another I swa years ago, OMP maybe. I never use adjustable rails in my car so I'm not the person to ask.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

What do you use on your endurance racing cars? Pick drivers that are the same height.

When dual driving with my fiance last year I drilled 2 sets of holes in my seat mounts and swapped between run groups, but that would be way too long in a racing situation.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

We mount the seat a wee bit too close for me and the shorter drivers (everyone) add pads. Its not safe to stack 8" of pads in there so I end up being a bit scrunched in my own car. For Vegas, we made a set of brackets like you speak of, two sets of holes.The rear are perfect for me. The front are so I can share with midgets (those less than 6-3' with 36" inseam). In pro level racing, they often use foam inserts. Otherwise, yes, you need to have all the drivers fairly close in stature. I have seen chumpcar teams with wildly different size drivers, sliding rails, big guys that can't evac quickly. Bad things.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Makes sense. We made a diy foam insert that worked great, but the 6'1" to 5'1" height difference meant seat moving too.

Does Vegas have any pedal adjustments? Or just the seat.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Tilton pedals. More info in that thread.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

ridewhencan

So I've read this thread and incorporated much of the flow chart but have reminded myself recently that track day safety is, of course, more than about the equipment. Posting this as an example to intermediate and below track day devotees to take your time and don't make assumptions about the other drivers. Leave a margin between you and the other guy. This worked out but that is not a forgiving corner.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

We use a pivoting seat mount and pads to accommodate drivers from 5'-8" to about 6-8". Its an Ultrasheild Rally Sport (I think). The seat pivots on the from mount tied into the cage. The rear has two telescoping down tubes mounted high on the seat (to act as a back brace). We use two 3/8" pins in through the telescoping tubes to support it. There is an additional catch on the floor that acts a a secondary support. Our shortest driver does use a single 1" pad to help get her closer to the wheel. I use no pad (5'-10") and seat up. Tallest drivers use seat down and no pads.

acedeuce802

iTrader: (1)

Would you be able to post pictures of this? I'm interested to see how it's all tied together.

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

I will see what I can do. Most of the stuff is tucked away and hard to see. Only the backbrace tubes are really visible. We loath the day we have to remove the seat to change out the belts.

Eunos91

I'm asking myself the same question. My car is a dual duty car that sees both 12,000 of (mostly spirited) street driving and ~3 track days per year. My 1991 NA's current setup is:
- wooden Nardi steering wheel (no airbag)
- Lotus Elise seats mounted to the stock sliders using 3mm steel adapters and high strength bolts. Seats were chosen mostly because of the higher headrest to keep my melon off the roll bar, and because i love the look. Sparco sprints etc. just didn't cut it for me
- stock belts (non-airbag version)
- TR lane roll bar (still unpadded)

Although I'd love to spend every day on a track, in reality I do most of my driving in traffic, back roads and alpine twisties. So statistically there's a way higher chance of having a front/rear accident with another car, or sliding off the road and hitting a rock/tree, than having an accident on track. I want to improve safety for both road and track. I suppose almost anything will be better than a stock Miata without an airbag, but what are really sensible options for me?

• harness: I'm leaning towards a 6-point Schroth harness. I could probably live with the everyday-struggle of buckling up. I know everybody nowadays speaks in favor of a HANS device (totally understand the benefits!), but it's just not gonna happen on the road. I could still get one for the track day, but ain't gonna wear it on the road. Still, millions of people have been using harnesses without any HANS device for decades and walked away from serious crashes. So while without doubt 6pt harness + HANS is #1 on track, wouldn't a 6pt harness alone still be better than using the stock 3pt belts and hitting my head on the solid no-airbag steering wheel?
• seat: I'm 1.74 cm and have a decent space between the Lotus seat and the roll bar. Still, rollbar padding is on my shopping list, even if it might not do a lot when not wearing a helmet. A halo seat is not street-legal due to impaired visibility. My plan was to add designated seat grommets to the Lotus seat, as most Elise owners do for the 6pt shoulder and crotch straps to pass through.

Of course, in theory, I could bolt in a Halo seat, 6pt+HANS, full roll cage, fire extinguisher,... for a track day. But none of this would improve everyday safety. So what can one realistically do to improve road safety without buying a new car, towing a designated track car or drive like a granny?