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Old 02-09-2016, 10:50 PM   #241
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I just installed a kirkey pro drag and am very happy with it. Seems to be a great dual purpose seat, but I'm worried about rear end head protection on the street. With the seat held firmly in place with a back brace, and no helmet to cushion your head, it seems dangerous. What's more, there is a big gap between the natural position of your head and the back of the seat with no helmet on. Is there a safety device that will properly cushion my head in a rear end collision that I can remove when I drove on the track?
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:33 AM   #242
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I'm glad I happened across this, will certainly grab a HANS before I head out on track. Currently have a momo deep dish wheel (needed to fit my leggy self into the car) 5 point and a sparco evo 2 seat. Dual durometer padding is on its way. I'm seeing it's not ideal as its not a full containment seat. I'll keep a seat upgrade in mind, I was concerned about visibility when I got the evo 2 though with the hardtop and seat position I can't see out to my left very well anyway.

Can we discuss proper seat mounting? I'm having trouble getting my head low enough in the car to pass the broomstick test. I can move the seat forward and lean it back enough to pass, but it seems like the angle is too much. Is there an angle you should stay below? Concerns about spinal compression?

To avoid the angle its looking like I will need to drop the floorpan and redo the seat brackets, is there such a thing as a seat that is too secured? If I bolt thru the lowered floorpan like I have it now the lowest point will be the fasteners for the seat brackets which I am not a fan of.

With all the trouble I am having, I put my wife in the stock seat and she doesn't pass the broomstick test either. She is 5'4" and her helmet was a half inch or so above the stick. The rollbar is as high as can fit inside a hardtop.. I'm thinking stock seats are unsafe under pretty much any condition.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:18 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelt View Post
I just installed a kirkey pro drag and am very happy with it. Seems to be a great dual purpose seat, but I'm worried about rear end head protection on the street. With the seat held firmly in place with a back brace, and no helmet to cushion your head, it seems dangerous. What's more, there is a big gap between the natural position of your head and the back of the seat with no helmet on. Is there a safety device that will properly cushion my head in a rear end collision that I can remove when I drove on the track?
we can use some BSCI seat foam. it's basically roll bar padding.

one of two ways.

one do the entire seat, this will need to be a xl kit. and we make you a custom seat insert that goes to your head.

the other way is get the small kit and just pour a head cushion.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:26 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggo View Post
I'm glad I happened across this, will certainly grab a HANS before I head out on track. Currently have a momo deep dish wheel (needed to fit my leggy self into the car) 5 point and a sparco evo 2 seat. Dual durometer padding is on its way. I'm seeing it's not ideal as its not a full containment seat. I'll keep a seat upgrade in mind, I was concerned about visibility when I got the evo 2 though with the hardtop and seat position I can't see out to my left very well anyway.

Can we discuss proper seat mounting? I'm having trouble getting my head low enough in the car to pass the broomstick test. I can move the seat forward and lean it back enough to pass, but it seems like the angle is too much. Is there an angle you should stay below? Concerns about spinal compression?

To avoid the angle its looking like I will need to drop the floorpan and redo the seat brackets, is there such a thing as a seat that is too secured? If I bolt thru the lowered floorpan like I have it now the lowest point will be the fasteners for the seat brackets which I am not a fan of.

With all the trouble I am having, I put my wife in the stock seat and she doesn't pass the broomstick test either. She is 5'4" and her helmet was a half inch or so above the stick. The rollbar is as high as can fit inside a hardtop.. I'm thinking stock seats are unsafe under pretty much any condition.
You can theoretically lean the seat as far back as you want. Once you go over say 25*-30* you really should run a formula harness. When you lean the seat back, your ***** are suddenly the first thing to contact the harness in a forward impact. A formula harness’s sub straps go around the “boys” and puts the pressure in the hip area.

Both NASA and SCCA have approved lowering the floor pan in Miata’s. This is for pt/tt – E and D also in spec miata. The rule states the floor can be lowered to even with the frame rail, and you must use .06” steel for the floor.

And get a seat for your wife.


Formula harness
Sparco FIA 6-Point Formula Racing Harness - 2015
http://www.ogracing.com/media/catalo...6hnr_web_4.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-80-04796hnr_web_4_bdca646f5703fa0618590fdf795722f8637b5f6a.jpg  
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:22 PM   #245
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Both NASA and SCCA have approved lowering the floor pan in Miata’s. This is for pt/tt – E and D also in spec miata. The rule states the floor can be lowered to even with the frame rail, and you must use .06” steel for the floor.
http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=131411
if you do run in NASA PT/TT, you need to add 100LB to base weight with lowered floor pan.

Last edited by bellwilliam; 02-11-2016 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:33 PM   #246
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I believe it is only NASA that has approved it. SCCA has not.

and if you do run in NASA PT/TT, it is a point modification.

yes, it makes no sense.
My stupid removable steering wheel puts me right into SP in auto-x, which I think is excessive as well, but I'll live. I've always been more concerned with racing myself than others anyway.

My wife won't be in the car, but I will need to put a race seat over there with a harness so the local orgs instructors can ride along anyway. This is all pretty frustrating, I really just want to get out there. The car is ready other than the safety modifications. There really is no room for error on the head positioning in the car with the seat all the way back. 1" up from ideal and you fail the broomstick, 1" down and your sight line is right at the steeringwheel.
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:52 PM   #247
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Stupid question #2. So I sat in a Sparco Sprint, which is attractive because of the price and since it appears to be really easy to install and center on the wheel, given the right bracket. But at 6ft, 180 and with wide-ish hips it's a bit tight. But it's a steel frame. Why not mount it and then take a scissors jack to it or some such? I googled the question and found very little. I know a vendor or manufacturer will say no for liability reasons but I'd expect there to be a half or full inch of play at the hip area. Wouldn't want to brake the weld though. Know anyone who's done this?
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Old 02-18-2016, 09:51 AM   #248
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Buy a Kirkey in the proper size. Measure your hip width in the fashion described on their site. Get a seat that fits instead of damaging the structural integrity of one that does not. Kirkeys are comfy, even if they don't always look it. Thousands of satisfied asses can't be wrong.
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:49 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Buy a Kirkey in the proper size. Measure your hip width in the fashion described on their site. Get a seat that fits instead of damaging the structural integrity of one that does not. Kirkeys are comfy, even if they don't always look it. Thousands of satisfied asses can't be wrong.
the only problem with kirkey is that you can't use sliders because the back needs to be rigidly mounted. (all non fia seats are like that). order them without a cover and get yourself the BSCI seat foam. make yourself your own custom seat. you'll love it.
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Old 02-18-2016, 11:23 AM   #250
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Don't forget UltraShield. They're relatively local to me in Tyler, TX and the welds are made by the same guys that weld up oilfield equipment. I always put in a plug for my homeboys.
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:56 PM   #251
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Sliders? I don't let anyone else drive my car.
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:51 PM   #252
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I have never really been comfortable putting sliders in a dedicated HPDE car and would never think of putting them in a race car. In the enduro cars we built for multiple drivers, we carefully positioned the seat, bolted in so my 6-3" frame could fit but still accommodate Sonny who is 5-7" with a pad.

There are a few designs for adjustable seat brackets that have a bolt and vertical slot to lock them into various fore-aft positions. Those are OK as they'll not move even in a high G shock and do not rely on a spring to hold a locking lever in place. We plan to build a set like that for the ND with probably 3 positions over a 2" range. As it is now, everyone else fits comfy except for me, and it's my car :P
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Old 02-18-2016, 03:02 PM   #253
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There are a few designs for adjustable seat brackets that have a bolt and vertical slot to lock them into various fore-aft positions. Those are OK as they'll not move even in a high G shock and do not rely on a spring to hold a locking lever in place. We plan to build a set like that for the ND with probably 3 positions over a 2" range. As it is now, everyone else fits comfy except for me, and it's my car :P
I took pains to do exactly this on my red car with easily accessible bolts that could be conveniently hit with an impact (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...6/#post1125642). And then I did a matching 3-position seatback brace (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...9/#post1130499).

2 years ago, I bolted everything up in the middle position and it's never been changed. So . . . .

But, I'm pretty much a median guy, and so are the others that have driven the car.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:25 PM   #254
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Interesting. My driver seat and probably the passenger seat will be fixed. My Miata is a weekend, track day car and is driven to the events, typically 1.5 to 2 hours away. The internet is full of stories of the lack of suitability of an aluminum seat on a car that is street driven, not just from a comfort stand point but also from a safety stand point, though if a properly set up aluminum seat is safe on a track I'm not sure why it'd be less so on the road.


I looked at the Sprint again and decided I didn't like the construction. Seemed "thin." Next I want to try the Sparco Evo ll but of course it's more expensive and fitment is more of an issue. Trackdog has an ultrashield and bracket but not a back brace, which I'm sure can be sourced elsewhere. I may go the event/seat swap routine but I'd been hoping to avoid it. I also wonder if there's an appreciable downside to repeatedly threading and unthreading the seat bolts.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:46 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Buy a Kirkey in the proper size. Measure your hip width in the fashion described on their site. Get a seat that fits instead of damaging the structural integrity of one that does not. Kirkeys are comfy, even if they don't always look it. Thousands of satisfied asses can't be wrong.
^ this

My Kirkey is now also my street seat. It's about as comfortable as the stock seat, and I made a headrest out of roll bar padding for rear end protection.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:46 PM   #256
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.... The internet is full of stories of the lack of suitability of an aluminum seat on a car that is street driven, not just from a comfort stand point but also from a safety stand point, though if a properly set up aluminum seat is safe on a track I'm not sure why it'd be less so on the road.....


95% of the aluminum seats i see roll into hpde's are mounted incorrectly. If they are mounted incorrectly they will be very flimsy.

a FIA seat is easier to mount. they only need a set of side mounts, and they will be very firm.

being "safe" is a relative term. a good friend of OG likes to comment on roll cage welds as 90 or 100. that number correlates as to what speed he wouldn't mind crashing the car at with those welds. a basic kirkey economy seat i would call a 65, as my sparco pro adv i call it a 150.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:52 PM   #257
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Solid rails mounted to the bottom or side of the seat. Plus a back brace built into the harness bar/roll bar? What else should be added.

I have a Ultrashield rally sport. I like the shoulder supports, and plan on adding nets.

Both passenger and driver have back braces, and while the passenger is on sliders, i plan on changing that.
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:22 PM   #258
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Solid rails mounted to the bottom or side of the seat. Plus a back brace built into the harness bar/roll bar? What else should be added.

I have a Ultrashield rally sport. I like the shoulder supports, and plan on adding nets.

Both passenger and driver have back braces, and while the passenger is on sliders, i plan on changing that.
We like to have aluminum seat backs mounted with 4 points. 2 points in the seat and 2 points on the bar. it gives Square mounting positions that makes the seat feel very planted. kirkey offers seat back braces that makes the job easier.

Seats | Car




as an option, on the floor we recommend ruining a reinforcement bar. that helps keep the floor ridged in a side impact.

Attached Thumbnails
HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-80-1634_kirkey_aluminum_rear_seat_mount_1406f63659a6bb6e6499687e5296c01105126966.jpg   HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-80-ctrp_1108_19_2bmini_stock_seat_install_4a15192c676a9e36428e6ea094415e6a25c56108.jpg  
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:24 PM   #259
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Ok, I can add a floor reinforcement bar pretty easily I think, between my 2 rails.

I have a single point in the rear, but am considering something to get 2 points.
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:28 PM   #260
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Ok, I can add a floor reinforcement bar pretty easily I think, between my 2 rails.

I have a single point in the rear, but am considering something to get 2 points.
the kirkey rear mounts are surprisingly dirt cheap. just google search for "1.5" roll bar clamp". you'll find lots of options for attaching the plate to your bar.

click here......
Attached Thumbnails
HPDE / track day safety gear flow chart !!-80-kirkey_rear_mount_db7d106cee8ff24bd76875cc4f637b13e068886c.jpg  
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