What's wrong with superchargers? - Page 14 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-05-2012, 12:35 AM   #261
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The power gained from E85 is mainly in the timing however because theres more of it it also cools the combustion air further.

And yes it burns cooler. EGTs are about 200-250 degrees cooler than what you'd see with regular gasoline.

As far as requiring special **** to run E85.. The only thing not compatible in a miata is the injectors. The rest of everything holds up fine. You dont even need a special O2 sensor, just run the regular wideband and tune for 12-12.5 afr instead of 11.5 for boost, 13.5-14 for spool up at atmosphere, and 16-17 in cruise and you're golden.

After switching to E85 it's actually normal to see your entire exhaust turn golden color while all the black carbon build up strips away. And at last alcohol smells much tastier than the soot of gasoline.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:20 AM   #262
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Some power gain is expected from switching to E85 on a NA engine, due to the higher energy content in the combustion.

( 81,800 BTU/Gal E85 / 9,8 AFR) / (114,000 BTU/Gal gasoline / 14,7 AFR) = 7,6%

Stated BTU/Gal for gasoline varies from 111.000 up to 114,500

Real life on non knock limited engines we've seen 0 to 10% gain.

Tommy
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #263
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lets talk more about how SCers suck. or cats.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:47 AM   #264
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Turbos suck because if you run out of exhaust, the turbo stops spinning. Superchargers are better because if a belt snaps, the supercharger has enough momentum to keep spinning until you stop the car yourself.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:51 AM   #265
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Just in case you push the direct exhaust injection too hard you mean?
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiazzaT View Post
Some power gain is expected from switching to E85 on a NA engine, due to the higher energy content in the combustion.

( 81,800 BTU/Gal E85 / 9,8 AFR) / (114,000 BTU/Gal gasoline / 14,7 AFR) = 7,6%

Stated BTU/Gal for gasoline varies from 111.000 up to 114,500

Real life on non knock limited engines we've seen 0 to 10% gain.

Tommy
wtf are you talking about? e85 has much less energy content.



Ok I feel obligated to do this:

IF YOU DON'T HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE USING/TUNING E85 PLEASE STFU AND DON'T POST ON THE SUBJECT.
KthxBi
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:00 AM   #267
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Nope Pizza is right. It has a lower energy content per volume, but you need more of it. Look at the ******* numbers dumbass. He's showing e85 as having 30,000 less BTU/gal but you need a lot more of it, so it works out to having more total energy in the combustion chamber than normal gas. Chemistry.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #268
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Ting is I have experience.

And as is evident from The calculation, you need to calculate for the amount combusted.

Tommy
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Nope Pizza is right. It has a lower energy content per volume, but you need more of it. Look at the ******* numbers dumbass. He's showing e85 as having 30,000 less BTU/gal but you need a lot more of it, so it works out to having more total energy in the combustion chamber than normal gas. Chemistry.
Listen dickwart, just sit back and let men talk.
You have proven your asshattery way too many times and not one single person on this forum actually takes your shitstained drivel as credible information because you're a ******* moron.

Get back in the kitchen bitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiazzaT View Post
Ting is I have experience.

And as is evident from The calculation, you need to calculate for the amount combusted.

Tommy
except your "calculations" are way off

I dokn't know wtf you're trying to accomplish bringing afr into this.....You don't need a consistent 30% e85 to replicate gasoline consumption. Unless you're a internet "expert" and really think that its consistent like that and have never tuned a car on e85 before.
The energy content of 1.0 US gallon of ethanol is 76,100 BTU, not 81,800.
Tuning strategies are different for the 2 fuels, and only boosted applications or ones with ultra high compression really take advantage of e85. Not a stock low comp BP. I KNOW you won't back up this stupid *** claim that Leafy and yourself keep trying to make, but I'll let you try:
How about posting said charts you speak of showing a 10% gain in power on a BP motor with n/a bolt ons...internally stock?

We're talking about BP's here. N/a BP's to be specific. Don't be a bitch and speak "generally" like the idiot posting above you.

The motor flows like ***. And isn't high compression or has trick cams. It has nothing to push said extra amounts of e85 (vs gasoline) and air through itself and take advantage of running cooler in the process due to the larger amount of fuel being vaporized.

I have personally tested ramping up the timing to kingdom come on e85 on an n/a engine and the gain was something pathetic like 3hp.




Don't pull a Leafy.
Its the fastest way to losing credibility on here.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:20 AM   #270
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Here dickface, Schenker's newest engine 93 vs e85.



13 hp gain up top, but the torque gain everywhere is more telling. Yes thats also 175 hp on an internally "stock" engine, N/A, without ITBs.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:28 AM   #271
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(114,000x0,15)+(76,100x0,85)=81,700

And I did not say BP

Will see about dyno chart next week.

Tommy
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:34 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Here dickface, Schenker's newest engine 93 vs e85.



13 hp gain up top, but the torque gain everywhere is more telling. Yes thats also 175 hp on an internally "stock" engine, N/A, without ITBs.


175-167=8
fail#1, dumbass

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ENGINE
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #273
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d00000000000000000ds.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:37 AM   #274
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Dammit, couldn't pull that fast one with the 13. Was hoping you just couldn't do math after disputing pizza.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:37 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiazzaT View Post
(114,000x0,15)+(76,100x0,85)=81,700

And I did not say BP

Will see about dyno chart next week.

Tommy
That's what I thought.
And why I'm arguing this. We're discussing mazda BP motors here, not some fancy dual vvt honda motors running 11.5 compression. And even with those 10hp would be a good gain and 15 would require a lot of massaging of the tune.
What are you tuning next week?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:39 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Dammit, couldn't pull that fast one with the 13. Was hoping you just couldn't do math after disputing pizza.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #277
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Was going to look trough the test run's we did when E85 first became available localy.

Don't have axcess to the graphs when not in the shop.

Tommy
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:07 PM   #278
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You lose all credibility due to your poor grammar.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:53 AM   #279
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Let's see how good you do in Norwegian ;-)

Tommy
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:23 AM   #280
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Let's not.
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