Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Funnily enough, I did some research on this previously.

On the first count, yes, you can be elected President while in prison. There is no specific statue which prevents this, nor is it prohibited by the Constitution.

On the second count, the answer is "mostly yes." No specific law prevents the President from pardoning themself, nor does the Constitution address this. One exception here is that the Constitution does preclude the President from pardoning offenses in cases of Impeachment. In this specific matter, the former President is not facing impeachment, as he is now a private citizen.

Also the Constitutional pardon provision "... for offenses against the United States." means that the President cannot pardon anyone of convictions at the State level. Again, that is not relevant (at the moment) in the Trump case, unless the state of Florida has some statutory provision somewhere which would cover possession of classified documents or violations of the Presidential Records Act. I'm not an expert on Florida law, but it seems unlikely.

Bajingo

The thing about this whole situation that I keep thinking about is what are they actually trying to do. Because the current situation doesn't make any sense for the Democrats to keep pursuing in the direction they seem to want it to go.

Just think about how these federal cases/trials are generally conducted. Secret warrants, secret trial, secret evidence, gag orders, etc. The only thing the public generally gets to know is guilty or not. It's bad enough that these blatantly unconstitutional trials happen, but do they really think that they can do that to Trump? A extremely Popular billionaire president?

​​​​​​I could honestly see that scenario causing a civil war and WW3

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I have been puzzling a lot over motive, and the reasoning behind it.

For starters, I'm going to assume that the goal here is to either prevent Trump from appearing on the ballot in 2024, or ensure that if he does, he loses. If that is not the goal, then the Dems are either a lot smarter or a lot dumber than I give them credit for.

Because both of these outcomes seem unlikely to me, based on where the pieces sit on the board at present.


Allow me to offer the following conjecture:


Let's say, hypothetically, that Trump is convicted of everything which he faces, and is sent to prison. In the eyes of the red-hatted faithful, that makes him a martyr. I honestly believe that he has enough loyal supporters within the RNC that a conviction and prison sentence would actually make him MORE likely to appear on the primary ballot, and enough outraged voters within the ranks of the Republican-registered electorate to subsequently win that primary election.

That would bring us to Phase 2: the General election.

Now, I could be wrong here. I certainly have been before. But I suspect that if the DNC were to put a potato (literally, an actual potato. We'll say that it's a Yukon Gold) on the general ballot in 2024, if Trump was on the ballot against the potato, it would still be a close race. Because there'd be so many outraged Never-Trumpers riled up that they'd be fanatically encouraging everyone to #VotePotato just to keep mean-tweets-man out of the White House.

(How Congress would deal with the issue of certifying a vote for a potato remains unclear, although the Constitution does not specifically require that the President be human.)

But the same hold true if the Dems were to put... literally anyone else on the ballot. Such as the recipient of the 2023 Nobel Prize in Gender Studies, who also happened to have found a cure for cancer and figured out how to grow enough crops to feed the world three-times over without the use of GMOs or fossil-fuels, while simultaneously #StandingWithUkraine and de-funding every police department in US because #BlackLivesMatter.

Or a normal person.

No matter who is on the democratic ticket in November of 2024, if Trump is on the republican ticket, then it's going to be a single-issue election for a vast majority of voters: Trump vs. Not-Trump.


Which begs the question: why would the DNC NOT want to leave Trump alone, and hope that he quietly fades into history?


That's the part I seriously can't figure out.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

There is one other possibility which I've thus far failed to acknowledge:

It could be that the democrats want Trump to win in 2024.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

Really? Even with Liz Cheney running around it's hard to imagine? Republicans like Cocaine Mitch stand to lose power, just like the libs. Swamp-dwellers are on both sides of the aisle. If Trump wins, the gravy train goes bye bye. More people wake up to what Washington is all about. Just imagine what four more years of energy independence will bring, and better schools, and safer neighborhoods, and more jobs, and increased quality of life. Oh, and a Facebook and Alphabet and Amazon monopolies broken up too.

Now it is true, everyone will still need to deal with the media's manipulation of all things Trump, but by that time people will largely ignore them thanks to what's happening now.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

There is no possible way that you could have written that after having fully read what I wrote.

We've met. We're friends in real life. I know for a fact that you're not dumb.

Literally my entire post which you're responding to can be summarized as "Why the democrats' present strategy, as I perceive it, has a strong chance of putting Trump into the white house in 2024, and why that puzzles me."

Bajingo

Do you think they are trying to get a bigger buffer before desantis runs? The should really be the DNC boogie man at this point, he's smart, well spoken, politicly reasonable, lacks some of trump's weaknesses, and slicker than a used car salesman. Assuming a trump run in 24, that pushes desantis back till 28 at the earliest. I don't think they have anyone in the pipeline that can hold a candle to desantis.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I honestly have no idea.

I cannot conceive of any solid reason why the democrats would want Trump to win in 2024. I'm merely pointing out that their present strategy seems to make that more likely to happen, and acknowledging the possibility that this may not be an accident.

Look, I consider myself to be a smart guy, but I also acknowledge that I'm not a genius, I'm not omniscient, and I'm certainly not a professional political strategist. My strong suite is dealing with complex machines, not human behavior.

So the fact that I can't perceive or understand the motivation behind some hypothetical political strategy doesn't mean that there isn't one. When it comes to predicting political outcomes, I've been wrong more times than I've been right.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

Mea Culpa. I've got an eye appointment tomorrow at 10am.

That said, the Dems are afraid of Trump, and everything he represents. The Deep State, The Swamp, The New World Order.....ALL afraid of Trump, and the tea-baggers and Hispanics and dock workers and small business people....and ESPECIALLY the religious folks who follow him. Damn those religious zealots!

Yes, we're friends. It's good to argue with someone with a different POV who isn't a complete twit.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Absolutely agreed.

Which is why I am so puzzled by the fact that, as I perceive it, the strategy which they are presently following is likely to increase the changes of his being on, and winning, the 2024 general election.

I'm a realist, and I don't think I'm smarter than all of the folks which the various political parties pay to formulate strategies for them to achieve their goals.

Which is why I'm nearly certain that there's something which I'm not seeing here. Because the alternative, which is "I'm smarter than the whole DNC," is unlikely.

And I'm damned curious as to the flaw in my logic.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

They're following the "spaghetti principle," which is throw **** on the wall and see what sticks. To Trump. And their ace in the hole is the Presidency, the House, the CIA/FBI/State Department/NIH/Big Pharma/Big Tech/MSM/etceteras. Oh, and there might be something fishy with the voting systems too. They're not taking chances. Just wait until Trump's indicted, right after the elections.

I honestly wonder how many millions of votes Trump won by in 2020.

Bajingo

I think they're a dog chasing a car right now, no actual thought in their head other than to get it.

hector

Joe, if you consider yourself and the folks forging the DNC's path as intelligent, then you have to be thinking strategy. Now, strategy can be long term or short term. And short term strategy can appear to be against long term strategy but that isn't always the case. And of course, nor is any strategy a guaranteed outcome.

This is a general statement and applies to anything, not just politics.

golftdibrad

I've seen that movie literal dozens of times and never picked up on that angle. wow.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

While there's a special place in the hearts of liberals for DJT, literally anyone who became the Republican nominee would be vilified by the libs. Rino Romney was caricatured into a heartless bully and animal hater and....you know....a "Mormon", with everything that entails. Pick a name--any name--they'll become the Devil incarnate (TM).

Everyone not on their team will get this treatment, and no, the opposite treatment by conservatives is not close to proportional.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Biden said there was 0% inflation, so why do we need this act?


EDIT: oh **** im really behind here.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, for the past few days, we've been having actual back-and-forth conversations where we express opinions and argue points of view using our own words and ideas, rather than just being meme-flooded.

Kinda like the old days.

Bajingo

I like the memes.

I'm still surprised that none of you liked my glorious new license plate.

chiefmg

iTrader: (5)

Here's a thought to chew on as regards the Dems and Trump. The Dems have been getting away with so much for so long that they think they are untouchable. In their world, anything they do is right and proper, so they can do whatever they desire. That would explain their skipping down the primrose path of their Trump scorched earth policy without a care in the world, oblivious to how it is being perceived outside of their fans. At this point in time who is to say they are wrong? I hope they are and that they will have to pay for their sins, but I can't tell if enough people are awake to bring this to a screeching halt or not.