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Old 07-27-2010, 10:28 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by shifty35 View Post
Staged injection isn't a bad idea. The upstream injectors are way to slow for idle / low rpm, so you'd want to use the stock injectors for idle / low rpm, and switch completely to the upstream injectors at some point.

or you use this:

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Old 07-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #342
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Eh, I'm not convinced there is enough port velocity at idle for that to actually work, but I could be wrong.

Bisimoto did quite a few staged injection tests that lead him to stick with carbs on his race cars for a long time until injector technology got a lot better.

You have to place an injector like 4 feet upstream to obtain the same atomization quality as a carb!
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:33 AM   #343
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basically i can alter when I inject fuel based on load/rpm...so i can compesate for velocities and get a more ideal burnzzzzzzzzzzz and increase MPG and efficiency.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:36 AM   #344
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Yeah, I understand the table.

I just have doubts that you could get a comparable idle to a port firing injector through injector phase adjustment alone. If you could, I would wager the OEMs would be doing it, since port firing injector is a horrible design compromise for improved idle and lower emissions at the expense of power.

If they could make it work with some software trickery, I imagine you'd see it done from the factory.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:52 PM   #345
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Doesn't matter, they're both turds. The square top, while still not ideal, is a vast improvement over any variation of USDM manifolds. That includes hogged out and ported USDM manifolds. The best performing 1.8 N/A manifold I've witnessed is an aftermarket Honda manifold grafted onto a BP4W manifold flange. Big gains everywhere.
OK so this proves my point, that the IM will provide gains for BOTH NA and turbo cars.

What's puzzling is why the NA hp junkies haven't been switching IM's since the first miata, and why it was the turbo ****** who did it in a big way.

I was always skeptical of the claim that "big IM provides gains on turbo cars but not NA cars".
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:55 PM   #346
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I'd guess it's because the stock manifolds give decent low RPM torque, which the autocross crowd prizes above all else.

Not hard to find a manifold that will perform better up top, but the "gains everywhere" part is probably harder to pull off with a shorter runner manifold.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:02 PM   #347
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Agreed.

4000~6500 RPM gains may be considered "everywhere" for autox/track ******.

A manifold that gains from 6000~7000 but loses from 4000~6000 would be a loser if the revlimit is <8000.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:17 PM   #348
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So I just picked up a D16 stock manifold for free to play around with. the ports match up almost perfectly with the B6, but they are a bit more "oval" and the head will need a bit of port matching.

Other than that, seems like it can be re-drilled.

I'll update with more info later on. Also going to try a B16 mani as well.


How much narrower is the B6 VS the BP for port spacing?
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:42 PM   #349
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The honda D series intake manifolds flow like **** compared to honda B series engines.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:45 PM   #350
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even the performer x from edelbrock? I'd imagine the D and B edelbrocks are similar if not almost the same.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:45 PM   #351
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So you're comparing a manifold to a whole engine?

There are a ton of aftermarket D series manifolds as well. Edelbrock and Skunk2 make great ones, so does Blox.

Golden Eagle also makes a great FI manifold for D series.
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:56 PM   #352
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the only reason I'm looking at a D series is because the port spacing is closer and better suited to the B6.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:08 PM   #353
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The d16y8 intake manifold actually flows really well from the factory. It's a very common swap for a cheap upgrade on turbo setups. I would wager that it doesn't flow quite as well as the factory b16 manis but close enough. They are dirt cheap too.
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Old 08-07-2010, 09:12 PM   #354
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If I am going through the hassle of making a manifold fit, it's going to be done to one that's worth it.

IE... Skunk2 or Performer X
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:03 PM   #355
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So it looks like the only way I am going to be able to do this is if I get a B16 manifold, chop the flange off, weld new flange on and use the secondary injector ports further up the runners as the primary and use the edelbrock fuel rail.

Injector tip to injector tip on B16 is 90mm and on B6 is 86mm.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:05 PM   #356
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Anyone think of trying a 4A-GE manifold on the B6?
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:54 PM   #357
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No but try it
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:10 PM   #358
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nah... I just saw levnubbin's build thread and I'm going to do the same thing with an edelbrock manifold.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:08 PM   #359
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So this is a type R manifold and B6 flange.



By the looks of the runners on there, it seems they line up alright but by the looks of it it seems the edelbrock may line up almost perfect because the runners dont taper in as much.

What do you think?

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Old 08-09-2010, 08:55 PM   #360
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My manifold is a blox manifold. Savington put the same manifold on his VVT head, check his build thread for 1.8 fitment.

I don't like the price of the edelbrock manifold, leatherface just scored a Blox mani on ebay for $135 shipped. If you search google you can find them for under $200 brand new.
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