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Old 04-06-2012, 07:24 PM   #121
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Here's my MSQ too, in case anyone wants to peruse. That car is driving pretty well, it needs a working IAC valve pretty desperately and needs some spark angle because its feeling pretty sluggish but already much faster than before and no more detonation. I suspect there is a missing ring-land or two on this engine.

Now excuse me while I go see Daniel Tosh live.
Enjoy the show, I saw him in Kennewick,WA last year. Was ------- awesome (except for kennewick, what a shithole)
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #122
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I added fuel and targeting 15.5 AFR on cruise to RHarris' place today and PW shrunk...it looks like leanness is not always the way to fuel economy.
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:25 PM   #123
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Good info, my VVTuner be here soon.
Sub'd
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:08 PM   #124
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What value do you bros initiate TPS accel from? I started with 40% and that was too high, 20% is too low. I'm going to try 25 later tomorrow.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:02 PM   #125
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Call me crazy, but if 40 is too high and 20 is too low, I'd go with 30.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:16 PM   #126
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Call me crazy, but if 40 is too high and 20 is too low, I'd go with 30.
Now hang on there, your starting to make too much sense. Calm it down there stud.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:47 AM   #127
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What value do you bros initiate TPS accel from? I started with 40% and that was too high, 20% is too low. I'm going to try 25 later tomorrow.

If 25 is still too low, go to 35. I'd skip 30 entirely. Ignore the drunken postings of others above who suggest it may be a reasonable compromise setting between 20 and 40. That's just the alcohol talking.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:19 AM   #128
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Come out to the NW side and we can compare penors and hit up Flying Saucer.

Here's a little mod for a MPG gauge in Tunerstudio.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uirt-5474.html

In for Hustler's ramblings on VVT angle vs fuel economy. I wish I could do some highway tuning but don't have the need to go anywhere.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #129
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Now hang on there, your starting to make too much sense. Calm it down there stud.
I'm getting tired of typing into the computer while driving, lol. Any answer I can get saves me from wrecking.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:21 AM   #130
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Come out to the NW side and we can compare penors and hit up Flying Saucer.

Here's a little mod for a MPG gauge in Tunerstudio.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uirt-5474.html

In for Hustler's ramblings on VVT angle vs fuel economy. I wish I could do some highway tuning but don't have the need to go anywhere.
That's great and all but my INI is different.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:22 AM   #131
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That's great and all but my INI is different.
Damn. I was using that for MS1 but hadn't tried using it with MS3 yet.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #132
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29mpg on the way home today. I'm running 15.5:1 afr and about 33* of spark at cruise and saw a 2mpg improvement at 78mph. Enrichments are still screwed up but I'll deal with that later. It seem like either the car will stumble when leaving from a stop, or run TPSAccel in cruise control.

I plan to swap engines on the last weekend of the month. I need to get the CHRA back for me green car before I take another car down.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:18 AM   #133
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What RPM at 78mph? Is your stumble right off idle, before clutch is engaged?
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:29 AM   #134
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What are you average speeds for these mileage numbers? 78mph is insane, image what you could do with 60mph, which is technically what cars are optimized for.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:39 AM   #135
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I added fuel and targeting 15.5 AFR on cruise to RHarris' place today and PW shrunk...it looks like leanness is not always the way to fuel economy.
Indeed, it's ignition advance. Stock the car runs high 30's, I run over 40deg and get 35Mpg+ on the motorway easily. You're running WAY too little advance.

Basically you want to make as much power as possible from as little TPS as possible. Granted small TPS positions increases pumping losses, but without EGR or a trick butterflyless ThrottleBody you're unable to avoid that.

Tuning cruise is easy btw, advance timing until the car want to surge, then add in timing until it stops. Then do the same with fuel, lean out until the car surges/backs off at a constant throttle, then add fuel back in.

Job done
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:59 AM   #136
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What RPM at 78mph? Is your stumble right off idle, before clutch is engaged?
~3761rpm most of the time according to the computer. Stumble is leaving from a stop, as the clutch engages...but not great when in neutral.

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Indeed, it's ignition advance. Stock the car runs high 30's, I run over 40deg and get 35Mpg+ on the motorway easily. You're running WAY too little advance.
While cruising down to Houston I saw 27mpg from 16.3:1 AFR and ~39* of spark. On the way home I did 15.5:1 and 33* of spark, which lowered PW from 5.6 to 5.2, and a 2mpg increase in fuel economy. I also dropped from 68kpa to 60kpa to cruise at 78mph.

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Basically you want to make as much power as possible from as little TPS as possible. Granted small TPS positions increases pumping losses, but without EGR or a trick butterflyless ThrottleBody you're unable to avoid that.
Damn, thanks for cluing me in rather than wasting my own time for a few months.
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Tuning cruise is easy btw, advance timing until the car want to surge, then add in timing until it stops. Then do the same with fuel, lean out until the car surges/backs off at a constant throttle, then add fuel back in.
See above. I'm going to eventually put this car in steady state on the dyno, put a brick over the throttle, then adjust VE and spark angle and watch output when I get the new engine in here.


So, do you guys think a 6speed/3.63 will give me even more fuel economy? I think a 300rpm drop will will help.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
~3761rpm most of the time according to the computer. Stumble is leaving from a stop, as the clutch engages...but not great when in neutral.


While cruising down to Houston I saw 27mpg from 16.3:1 AFR and ~39* of spark. On the way home I did 15.5:1 and 33* of spark, which lowered PW from 5.6 to 5.2, and a 2mpg increase in fuel economy. I also dropped from 68kpa to 60kpa to cruise at 78mph.


Damn, thanks for cluing me in rather than wasting my own time for a few months.

See above. I'm going to eventually put this car in steady state on the dyno, put a brick over the throttle, then adjust VE and spark angle and watch output when I get the new engine in here.


So, do you guys think a 6speed/3.63 will give me even more fuel economy? I think a 300rpm drop will will help.
A six speed + 3.636 won't help as much as just the r&p, see this: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php.

Also, peak BSFC is at full throttle and peak torque(ish), but you'll never gear the car low enough to use all the power at speed, and you wouldn't want to, cause that would leave no power for passing. So use these charts as a rough guide: http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/...on_(BSFC)_Maps


And get yourself a Ford 8.8 conversion. You can get like a 2.7ish r&p for that ----.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:03 AM   #138
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A six speed + 3.636 won't help as much as just the r&p, see this: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php.
I think a 300rpm drop is significant and have this set-up in my track car.

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Also, peak BSFC is at full throttle and peak torque(ish), but you'll never gear the car low enough to use all the power at speed, and you wouldn't want to, cause that would leave no power for passing. So use these charts as a rough guide: http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/...on_(BSFC)_Maps
Great link. I'd like to get cruise RPM down to 3200rpm or so because I believe that's where efficiency is highest (65mph, shorty gears). This car was clearly not designed for someone who lives in Texas and even when cruising at 80mph still gets steam-rolled in traffic, lol.

Ideally I'd like to be able to cruise at ~85mph which will be 3800rpm with the new gears. It will also make the car a bit faster with the tighter gears...and I can use all the help I can get after driving my turbo car. I don't know that I can live with the pain of a 3.90 and 5-speed. I have all the gears and transmissions in the garage so I can have my pick, but I'm 99% certain I'm going with the unicorn R&P and 6-speed.

I think I'm going to need to lower my 35mpg expectation (knew I would) to about 31-32mpg. A full point bump in compression, engine without holes in pistons or bent valves, intake piping without an air meter, and the variable cam should get me over 30mpg.

I wonder why mileage is so good in my green car? on EV1 injectors, batch-fire, and general disrespect for the law?
Edit:
I should also note that I've lowered the mileage by 4% to account for the difference in speed from my speedo to the GPS speed. This is accounted for in all MPG data I posted.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #139
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maybe if you had some EGR
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:20 AM   #140
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maybe if you had some EGR
Talk to me about this.

Also remember the engine in my car currently is hurt and sad. It detonates on 25* of spark at 4000rpm on 93-octane and I checked timing calibration. It will live on as a boat anchor or something. Actually, I'm giving it to RHarris.
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