[QUOTE=Joe Perez;1660645](followed shortly by)


I... I honestly cannot figure out what you are trying to say here.

The 5th Amendment covers a lot of protections, the most substantive of which are summarized in the "Grok says" paragraphs which you pasted in.

There is no provision for the limitation or revocation of those protections, least of all solely by the actions of the president.


/QUTE]

Just sharing what Grok says about the issue. Not even trying to "win" an argument...just sharing more information for a more complete picture.

 

So DEI was basically squashed on MLK day? Is that cute or what.

 

Yup.

The wife of a former college roommate of mine, who herself is an old high school classmate, has made a pretty decent career for herself as a high-up DEI manager / implementer for the Gov't, mostly in DoD (military) circles. Easy six-figures, which isn't bad for a morbidly obese, neurodivergant, disabled Filipino-American with a degree in English Lit. Her husband is chronically unemployed, so she wears the pants in the family. Well, I don't think she would fit into pants...

I've been gently prodding her about this for years, and in fact I just now noticed that she has quietly unfriended me on FB, which is not unexpected. But I do genuinely feel kind of bad for her. She'd really convinced herself that this was a solid career, and that she was doing important work.

Ah, well...



I will say this, and it's something that we should all bear in mind. You see how quickly Trump is un-winding the bullshit of the Biden-Harris administration? Just remember that pendulums swing both ways, and the next far-leftist to occupy the White House will have just as easy a time un-doing everything that's happening right now.

 

"We wouldn't have decided to do this, unless you won."



With a "T"

 

Well MLK did preach judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I would think he would include that to the gender that they are or even choose to be, and whatever other things DEI entails..

Let every job be merit based, not feelings based. If you can't hang, you get fired. It's not a novel concept, and it works very well.

 

Journalism, 2025 edition:

 

One of the dumbest, most boomer moves you could make.

 

 

Are you going to have to go in every day now, through all that traffic?

 

They haven't extended it to contractors yet. Doing so will break the government. literally.

Most of the office buildings can barely facilitate the current amount of employees. My last contract, at the NRO, in 2019 they basically built a new parking lot and still kicked out all the contractors that didn't need to be on site.

All it's going to do is make any talented feds quit for a better paying wfh from any company in the entire world... That may be the goal, or its a bunch of boomers in charge that think leasing million dollar 1950 office buildings and forcing employees to work is dismal, low-moral, high-cost low-reward jobs is somehow better.


more journalism:

 

Yeah I think that's the goal. I've heard that the size of government grew by 25% under Biden, so much so that it often helped monthly employment numbers. It's time to get back to first principles. On day one it always looks like doom, but reality filters in over time.

 

It's just funny to see all these EOs remove gov't barriers (tungsten bulbs, DEI, AA) and there they go adding back one of the stupidest policies on the planet.

I would say that every single coworker/employee I've ever lost over the last 12 years was from a higher paying job with WFH potential.


Hell, I was forced to work every single day of 2020 in the office. Then in 2021 they started the mask and vaccine policy bullshit.

The only thing good from covid was that it proved without a shadow of a doubt that WFH works, and works well. OR they could have looked at all the fortune 500 companies over the last 10 years and seen that, but I digress...

 

Brain,

I believe the problem is not that WFH isn't efficient, but rather that it has shown most govies don't actually "work" 40 hours a week, or need 40 hours to do their jobs.

When govies are in the office, there's a facade for the taxpayer that they're earning their keep. However, when the govie's neighbor sees him mowing his lawn during working hours, or runs into him/her at the WalMart during the duty day, it's easy to feel like taxpayers are being cheated by WFH.

I work in a vault with active duty, govies, and contractors. The govies appear to be good at their jobs, but they actually "do"" their jobs only a couple of times a month. Seriously. Also, every job has an alternate, but there's no attempt to make sure the primary and the alternate aren't on leave at the same time.

The govies (and contractors) are there because a couple of decades ago, the size of the active duty military was reduced, but the amount of work remained the same. Active duty folks were replaced by govies (and contractors) because they were paid from a different pot of money. Now, they're an entrenched part of the system. Most govies spend the day looking for the end of the internet, and could be replaced by a non-functioning toggle switch.

The number of paid government holidays is also a slap in the face of everyday Americans. There are 11 paid government holidays, and they're usually turned into four-day-weekends for the active duty folks. The govies get to "work" from home.

Trump knows there are too many govies. Unfortunately, Contractors are collateral damage.

 

I'd like to have a serious conversation here for a moment.


I really am making a serious effort to understand what your actual viewpoint is on this issue which you raised, and I feel that this isn't the first time you've left me bewildered in this way.


First you said "5th Amendment is self-incrimination. If you're being asked questions about an issue for which you've received a pardon, you can't clam up because even if you say you broke the law, you've already received a pardon"

And, we both know that the 5th is about a lot more then self-incrimination, but I understand what you mean there.

Then you said: "In summary, a pardon does not remove one's constitutional rights, including those under the Fifth Amendment," which you attributed to "Grok."


For one, those two statements are contradictory. Yet when I asked you about this, you kinda just handwaved over the question.

For two, I have no idea who "Grok" is in this context, and you have provided no links or citation here. In my experience, "Grok" is a verb, used in the writings of science-fiction novelist Robert A. Heinlein, which means roughly "to comprehend at a deep level." A cursory web search reveals that it is also the name of an AI chatbot, and I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume that this is what you meant.


So, would you please connect the dots for me?

 

Fortunately, things like that are easy to determine for ourselves.

A web search for "Federal employees by year" produces this very helpful website, which allows us to chart government employment statistics over customizable timescales, and also download raw data

To start with, here's the whole chart from 1939 to the present day:




It's pretty easy to see WWII there at the beginning, and since then, the number has risen at a pretty consistent rate.

You can see the little blips every ten years when loads of temporary workers are hired to conduct the census, and of course the 2020 situation.

There's a bit of a decline during Reagan's first term in office, and then a rebound to higher-than-1981 levels during his second term. Then there's a similar decline-and-rebound during the two terms of the Obama presidency as well.

Now, let's zoom in on the past ten years:




So, President Trump's first term began in Jan 2017, at which time there were 22.3 million Federal employees. This steadily increased to 22.9 million over the next three years, at which time the "two weeks to flatten the curve" order was issued, and federal employment dropped to 21.4 million. All in all, a growth rate of a little under 1% per year during the three years preceding the shutdown.


Now, Biden came into office in Jan 2021, by which time Federal employment had rebounded to 21.8 million. Over the next four years it once again steadily rose, reaching 23.5 million by the end of Dec 2024. That's a growth rate of a little under 2% per year. And, of course, good luck separating "real" growth from merely the effects of the re-hiring of employees furloughed during the "two weeks."


It will be very interesting to re-visit this data in 2029.

 

Unless you want most of those people to quit rather than having to fire them or lay them off, which both cost more money. Just hold your head high and know you are making America stronger every day that you commute.

 

It's kinda fun to watch Brainey side with NPR in criticizing President Trump and argue in support of large government, isn't it?

 

An employee that doesn't do their job 40hr WFH, isn't going to do their job sitting in a office/cube after driving an hour to work and spending +30 minutes getting coffee, chatting with coworkers, and then finally slipping into their chair.......aaaaaannnddddd now its time for lunch break.

I agree that most FTEs are pointless and useless, but still, many aren't.

But nothing ever will change my opinion that if you cant manage a WFH staff, you can't manage an in-person staff who are miserable/low-moral.

The only people benefiting from these sorts of rules are the office building owners, starbucks, gas stations, and clothing stores.

Also, If you're an FTE or Contractor alike, time card fraud is a huge deal that they take very seriously and one of the few things that can get you insta fired -- i've seen a good handful of people fired over it, working from the office.


I'm all for firing these employees. I'm not all for blanket rulings that are incongruent with the introduction of DOGE.