1.6L 2560r record attempt - Page 32 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 03-08-2013, 05:44 AM   #621
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tuned to 11.8? Umm hello???? We looking at the same graph? The only part thats tuned for 11.8 is between 6200 and 6400rpm.. the rest is all over the place.


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Old 03-08-2013, 06:04 AM   #622
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Ive said many many times in this thread that the last section has since been smoothed out.

Anyways, Im going to stick in an LC1 or whatever is the **** these days and datalog some runs and everyone can come back when Ive done that haha.

Cheers,
Dann
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:07 AM   #623
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Hmm from that saying it sounded more like thats after its been smoothed out.. Makes no sense to post a final hp dyno graph that's not final when it clearly says final.

Last edited by triple88a; 03-08-2013 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:34 AM   #624
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Lol. We did at least 5 more pulls after, all above 320 but none over 325.4hp.

It's a final hp graph because peak hp is on a different part of the map which is unaffected by smoothing that part.

The first reply I got back (from full tilt boogie) assumed that by cleaned up the AFRs I lost 30hp. Where as what he was lookjing at was the overlay from the old turbo setup.
You have assumed the posted graph was a finished day at the dyno nd its fair to see why, however we cleaned those afrs up at the very top after the highest HP pull was done. those AFRs are not at peak HP though so peak hp hasnt changed.

Dann

Last edited by nitrodann; 03-08-2013 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:29 AM   #625
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You say e85, then you say 110oct gasoline. which is it?

Then you ask for tuning advice, when the map looks like absolute garbage, possibly worse than a base map, and you're not using a proper tps, and you're not using a wideband.

That's like a guy coming in here and asking us "Hey guys how do I turbo my car?"
You HAVE to do at least some legwork on this: hook up proper tps, hook up proper wideband, at least autotune the fuel to where you're not jumping 20-30% between fuel cells. Throwing a completely un-tuned car onto a dyno and then dialing in fuel based on eyeballing a dyno wideband readout is basically NOTHING. So the tune is not even 1/4 done. I'd say its not even started yet.

Seriously. Start over. (well, that is if you're the one in charge of tuning this thing). Hook everything up, set up all the trims and calibrations (tons of info on this in the MS section), at least autotune a rough fuel map onto it, and THEN you can ask us for more advice and tips/tricks on how to get the spool improved.

When we see that the car is at least running as it should based on logs, we can then take guesses at what needs to be improved.

We can't help you right now cause there's so much wrong that its not 1 single issue causing your late spool and weird torque under curve. There's at least a handful.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:01 PM   #626
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Also, are you sure you still have a 1.6L tps? I actually appears to be working like a vTPS, just not calibrated correctly.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #627
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this is what i get in datalog lab:


This is set to a 1.8L with a 6-speed in 3rd gear:



This is set to a 1.6L with a 5-speed in 3rd gear, if I do 4th it shoots to 600hp if 2nd like 150hp.


I put both with a 4.1 rear and 2400lbs.
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1.6L 2560r record attempt-16l_3rdgear.jpg   1.6L 2560r record attempt-18l_3rd-gear.jpg  
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #628
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Well for sure you want the 6 speed ratios, dont know what diff hes running though. 4.3 maybe?
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:36 PM   #629
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yeah, i made a custom 1.6L profile with teh 6-sp and in 3rd gear with a 4.1 rear (he said torsen I thought) it's only giving 223hp.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:08 PM   #630
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I always thought the new engine/new MS tuning procedure was:

1. Calibrate TPS
2. Calibrate wideband
3. Verify base timing
4. Adjust target AFRs
5. Develop a smooth idle
6. Autotune off-boost cells
7. Gradually step up boost levels to desired max while autotuning each level
8. Put car on dyno to fine tune spark and fuel for maximum power/reliability
9. Post final resultant dyno graph on interwebz so everyone can see you know what you are doing
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:11 PM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I always thought the new engine/new MS tuning procedure was:

1. Calibrate TPS
2. Calibrate wideband
3. Verify base timing
4. Adjust target AFRs
5. Develop a smooth idle
6. Autotune off-boost cells
7. Gradually step up boost levels to desired max while autotuning each level
8. Put car on dyno to fine tune spark and fuel for maximum power/reliability
9. Post final resultant dyno graph on interwebz so everyone can see you know what you are doing
You're silly.... That wouldn't be entertaining at all.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:12 PM   #632
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
You're silly.... That wouldn't be entertaining at all.
I know right? LIKE WHO DOES THAT?!!!!
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:40 PM   #634
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Please note that the dyno chart shows AFR's as a percentage of lambda (lambda of 1.0 = stoich), Dann is running E85 (also shown on the dynochart) lambda of 1.0 for e85 is 9.76:1 the chart shows he's running between .75 and .85 lambda. He's running rich through most of it, around .85 lambda is about right. 8.0 - 8.5:1 is about where he should be under boost with e85. if he were in fact running 11.5-12:1 AFR's on E85 he would be running extremely lean and his engine would be dead. if discussing ratios plesae use ratios that are correct for the fuel being used.

Dann, make sure you tune in percentage of lambda, or make sure you use proper afr numbers for E85. Save your engine

Jim

Last edited by jimj64; 03-08-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:42 PM   #635
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he's 96%DC on 1000cc injectors, he's not lean.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:51 PM   #636
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Everyone learn to read or go away and come back in a week or so.

Dann
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:00 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
Please note that the dyno chart shows AFR's as a percentage of lambda (lambda of 1.0 = stoich), Dann is running E85 (also shown on the dynochart) lambda of 1.0 for e85 is 9.76:1 the chart shows he's running between .75 and .85 lambda. He's running rich through most of it, around .85 lambda is about right. 8.0 - 8.5:1 is about where he should be under boost with e85. if he were in fact running 11.5-12:1 AFR's on E85 he would be running extremely lean and his engine would be dead. if discussing ratios plesae use ratios that are correct for the fuel being used.

Dann, make sure you tune in percentage of lambda, or make sure you use proper afr numbers for E85. Save your engine

Jim
You need a E85 flex fuel specific wideband to follow your numbers... the regular wideband does not follow those numbers. The regular wideband would show 11.5-12:1 afr on e85. Thats why you tune for 16.5afr between 0-60kpa go to 13 by spool up and then to 11.5-12 in boost.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:05 PM   #638
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What tripple88 said.

I tuned via lambda on dyno but will check everything via gasoline afr like 88 said when I street tune everything.

Dann
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:42 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
You need a E85 flex fuel specific wideband to follow your numbers... the regular wideband does not follow those numbers. The regular wideband would show 11.5-12:1 afr on e85. Thats why you tune for 16.5afr between 0-60kpa go to 13 by spool up and then to 11.5-12 in boost.

no you don't, that's why you use percent of lambda, then it doesn't matter what fuel you're using, stoich is always equal to lambda=1.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:47 PM   #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
no you don't, that's why you use percent of lambda, then it doesn't matter what fuel you're using, stoich is always equal to lambda=1.
Theres different sensors ya nub.

When using the gasoline calibrated sensor you use relative afr to gasoline values.. thats where the 12-11.5 is at.
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