1.6L 2560r record attempt - Page 30 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2013, 09:35 AM   #581
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

I wasn't really insulting anything...I just prefer dynojets because you can actually compare dyno graphs, and with other unknown dynos it's hard because of the different way in which they meter TQ and what settings a dyno operator can do to increase those numbers on paper.

I still just take your dyno's peak numbers with a grain of salt, but what it does show is that the new manifold spools like ***, but it makes gobs more torque in the mid.

anyways, dann what size injectors are you running?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #582
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

ID1000s.
Thats why the data logs show... What was it?.. 15% duty.

I'm going to open a new thread with screens hits of the tune to discuss spool vs timing and AFR.

Dann
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 03:51 AM   #583
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4
Total Cats: 0
Default

Dann,
got any dyno vids? Did N..... tune it?
old_mr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:42 AM   #584
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
I'm going to open a new thread with screens hits of the tune to discuss spool vs timing and AFR.
I quickly looked at your log yesterday, honestly, I have a feeling the AFRs instantly dropping to, off-the-charts, 9.0:1 has a little to do with the spool. That's why I posted my dyno chart that showed a horrible spool when the AFRs just dumped pig rich. I have used the wrong ratio FMU disc 7:1 instead of 4:1, and I had way too much fuel pressure. I forgot to bring replacement discs with me to the dyno and I was sad panda face. Those were the good ol days.




I also ran it in Virtual Dyno, for a 1.8L with a 6-sp in 5th and the dyno plot was almost identical to the one you posted at ~325rwhp; awesome.

But then I did it as a 1.6L in 4th gear, and it was like ~270rwhp; not awesome.

I'm not quite sure which one to use for this car. And really didnt have the chance to play much around with it using my own dyno logs to compare with.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:45 AM   #585
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Brain you arent running a log from a dyno run through VD are you? Because that doesnt work.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:01 AM   #586
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,577
Total Cats: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post

I also ran it in Virtual Dyno, for a 1.8L with a 6-sp in 5th and the dyno plot was almost identical to the one you posted at ~325rwhp; awesome.

But then I did it as a 1.6L in 4th gear, and it was like ~270rwhp; not awesome.

I'm not quite sure which one to use for this car. And really didnt have the chance to play much around with it using my own dyno logs to compare with.
Considering he has a 6 speed and a torsen I would imagine you would use the 1.8 with a 6 speed one.
Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:08 AM   #587
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Brain you arent running a log from a dyno run through VD are you? Because that doesnt work.
why not?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #588
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Because VD uses the weight of the car and some drag math. You have no drag and on the dyno you're not accelerating the weight of the car you're accelerating the inertia of the rollers and/or pushing against the resistance of the dyno brake.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:11 AM   #589
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

okay then, ill find other log files

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Considering he has a 6 speed and a torsen I would imagine you would use the 1.8 with a 6 speed one.
but that's a huge difference between the two when I make all other things equal.

Quote:
How exactly is he making less power down low than you?

Jim J



here's how. I have a larger, journal bearing, turbo than him. I have my numbers corrected for a dynojet, to compare to most my other pulls I've done. That number is spot on when I compare all my previous pulls and others who have dynoed on both that particular dyno dynamics and a dynojet.

If I didn't correct my numbers, the TQ at spool is identical from 2500-3500 where he continutes to build boost, but then that would assume he's making WELL over 325hp compared to a dynojet.

It's hard to tell exactly how a mainline dyno compares, but you can see the torqe curves at 5K are very similar, as I'd expect on a 1.6L using hte stock IM.

I'd really expect that 2560 to spool much faster than my turbo, especially given that the compressor wheels are very similar, but my turbine wheel is MUCH larger. I can make "all of it boost" before 4K, I see 13psi on the street around 3500. Once these turbos start to spool, it should be in a more linear fashion, then expoentially as the cams kick in. Dann's is slow to spool...finally making full boost at around 5200, that's really disappointing for that turbo, but I contribute most of it to the manifold design and the tuning.

edit: If I plot my spool vs. his, it's not THAT much slower, almost spot on, maybe 200rpm slower, so I'd further contibute the loss of low-end to mostly tuning.

Dann, what CR pistons are you running?
Attached Thumbnails
1.6L 2560r record attempt-16lt313psivs.16l256022psi.jpg  

Last edited by Braineack; 03-07-2013 at 10:43 AM.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:29 AM   #590
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

The log files I gave you were on a flat road. not a dyno.

Final drive ratios are different, this car has a torsen diff setup with a 2 way inside it, and 6 speed, its all NB from a drivetrain and gearing perspective.

Im happy VD agrees with my local dyno, it really goes super super quick for what it is.

None of the tune below 3000 odd rpm has been changed at all from th elast setup, so it all needs to be tuned down low.

Ill start by leaning it out and just trying to get it to drive nice out of boost and we will work from there.

Ill paste screenshots of the fuel and spark maps now.

Also, this isnt very accurate but it did 160 over 200m (basically around 100mph in the 1/8th)

Dann
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:35 AM   #591
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

Here.






Dann
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #592
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
Here.


Dann
Which episode of the Walking Dead were you watching?
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #593
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

s3 e12, lastest one, was the best of the season so far.

Dann
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #594
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

what CR pistons?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:10 AM   #595
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

No idea and cannot find out without opening the engine, which I may because im not satisfied with the noise it makes that i thought was a cracked piston.

To clarify- the people who built it said compression would have been standard but didnt have it written down.

Dann

Last edited by nitrodann; 03-08-2013 at 03:15 AM.
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 11:54 AM   #596
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,517
Total Cats: 257
Default

that's a lot of timing but the map is stupid

for one, it goes to 9000

lol
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #597
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

how ARE you even tuning this car? what are you using for an o2 input? nothing, just dyno tuning it?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #598
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
how ARE you even tuning this car? what are you using for an o2 input? nothing, just dyno tuning it?
Dude he's got espn he can read the cars thoughts.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:45 PM   #599
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,857
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

His log file shows AFR flat at 9.8:1 AFR the entire log, so either he's not running a O2 or something is messed up. On top of that, he still has EGO active...

his tps goes from 5% to 350%, so that wasn't calibrated.

the fuel and timing maps are still a mess.

the log file shows a lot of 10% dips in gammae during the pull, that's not cool.

voltage drops to 9.5v in boost.

the log shows DC hit 96%, this is on 1000cc injectors, are we to assume this made roughy 650hp?

quick math shows: 95.2lb/min * .96 / .55 BSFC x 4 clyinders = 664

Actually tuning this car would probably improve the spool and output substainally...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 08:20 PM   #600
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,638
Total Cats: 25
Default

On the dyno with a wide band. Shops one.

Haven't done any other tuning since. We only tuned in boost on e dyno.

The logs are on the street. No o2 sensor. Faulty TPS, where do I get one for a 1.6L?
It needs a new alternator belt I think it's on the to do list.
Are you saying that ego correction is turned on?

Also what's gammae?

Dann

Last edited by nitrodann; 03-07-2013 at 08:51 PM.
nitrodann is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
91 1.6l turbo complete part out. Tony the Tiger Miata parts for sale/trade 63 12-29-2016 03:23 AM
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
UEFI boot help needed mgeoffriau Gaming 38 03-02-2016 04:59 PM
My solution for Oiltemp and Oilpressure input into Megasuirt (MS3) Zaphod MEGAsquirt 41 01-24-2016 01:25 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:49 PM.