EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning) - Page 19 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-22-2009, 04:11 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
but you're not *supposed* to tighten studs, you are supposed to use the nut - tightening the stud means you give up the whole advantage of studs - you're effectively using up the strength of the stud so you can't tighten the nut much.
Not according to corky, who says you are supposed to apply some amount of torque related to the amount of torque that goes into the nut, but he still hasn't produced a car that doesn't have this problem, and his suggestion goes contrary to what ARP and pretty much everyone else sayskldjflkaewgufnwalk;h;dsfjkdsahf;ksa


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Old 07-22-2009, 05:38 PM   #362
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He said walk.

Anyway, if I get my gauges done and some other random **** Im doing while the car is apart. I will bolt everything back up with the used 304L studs I have and the nuts, but this time with the Resbond ****. See how that goes for a track day.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:44 PM   #363
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I think in a few months after everyone has had a chance to test their approach we will end up with some good empirical data here about what works (hopefully one of them does, other than the v-bands) and what does not. This is one thread that will hopefully go on for a good while.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:20 PM   #364
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Is someone using the Big Stud approach? Remember, that's not just my name, it's the suggestion itself. :-)

The only real question with the big studs is, no matter how good the lock nuts are, it doesn't keep the studs from spinning (thouhg if they are always clamped and well outside of their failure range you should be ok). Anyway, I'm certainly keeping an eye on here. It's still hard for me to imagine something much better than good locknuts and wireing (or, spiking if need be - cater pins or those fancy bend tabs FM's selling these days) - a threaded fastener which can't turn and doesn't break will stay in.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:25 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Is someone using the Big Stud approach? Remember, that's not just my name, it's the suggestion itself. :-)

The only real question with the big studs is, no matter how good the lock nuts are, it doesn't keep the studs from spinning (thouhg if they are always clamped and well outside of their failure range you should be ok). Anyway, I'm certainly keeping an eye on here. It's still hard for me to imagine something much better than good locknuts and wireing (or, spiking if need be - cater pins or those fancy bend tabs FM's selling these days) - a threaded fastener which can't turn and doesn't break will stay in.
ohmymotherfuckinggod, please read the thread...the god damned studs stretch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oneone
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #366
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a threaded fastener which can't turn and doesn't break will stay in.

read the ******* thread before you post dumb **** like this

edit: beaten
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:00 PM   #367
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I guess I really must have missed something. Stretch so much you get leaks? What's the issue if they stretch 30 mils - if it's pinned it shouldn't matter?
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:04 PM   #368
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Go read this ENTIRE thread and watch the video I posted. They stretch enough that I can click my turbo back and forth independent of the manifold, and I can spin the washers I put behind the nuts. This is WITH safety wire.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:31 PM   #369
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so BEGi tried but could not score space-shuttle studs and the best option available is grade-8 studs with resbond and stage-8 lock nuts. If the parts get here on Friday then I can get some track-time on Sunday to test it out.

I'm torn between trying again and dropping roughly $2000 on a v-band set-up that probably won't be ready for September. Any thoughts on what to do now?
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:45 PM   #370
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Pray
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:49 PM   #371
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Pray
which god? Schumacher?
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:56 PM   #372
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which god? Schumacher?
More like Ross Brawn, the god that kept all of Schumacher's rides running so reliably.

$2K is a lot of coin. I would try what you described and see how it and all the other **** that is about to get tried (other than v-bands) works out. Since MSR I have added (or am adding) Corrado rotors, better pads, proportioning valve, 225/45/15 NT-01s on 6ULs, v-mountage, improved cooling, and racing seats/harnesses, so as soon as the car is back online you know I'll be Jonesing for some track time. So I'll have turbo fastener test results soon.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:01 AM   #373
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More like Ross Brawn, the god that kept all of Schumacher's rides running so reliably.

$2K is a lot of coin. I would try what you described and see how it and all the other **** that is about to get tried (other than v-bands) works out.
I should have done that initially but I've had turbodiesel chevy on my mind.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:10 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post

I'm torn between trying again and dropping roughly $2000 on a v-band set-up that probably won't be ready for September. Any thoughts on what to do now?
Use the new studs, resbond, and stage 8s. Be sure i put resbond on the stage 8s too. My last event i used mcmaster studs matched with stage 8s and they lasted the entire day till the last session. I think matched with the resbond they *should* hold up.

Either way, sunday is close and you can make your decision about switching to v-bands in a few days. I would really like to have a solution for us cast mani guys.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:18 PM   #375
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will someone who is using studs do me a favor?

TAKE SOME DAMN DATA.

draw a little picture of where the studs go and measure their length to the nearest .0005" before you put them in. then when your **** falls out, you'll know if they stretched and how much.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:28 PM   #376
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Though I am not using studs, I'll try to remember to do that myself.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:29 PM   #377
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OK, completely new thought. Yes I have read the entire thread. No, I haven't tracked. Yes, my **** got loose on street driving only.

What about compensating for stretch with Inconel belleville or wave washers? The inconel washers will handle the heat without losing their spring properties. This way the stud can stretch/grow but the spring washers can still maintain tension so the nut doesn't become loose. When it cools, there is still spring tension. When hot, the washers still maintain tension.

Googling came up with some hits. The first company came up in....Houston TX! Engineered Spring Products, Inc. May be a local can check them out.

They make parts from all grades of inconel - 600, 625, X750 and 718. They also do A 286 and Titanium. They make spring washers, belleville washers, wave washers. Two stacked bellvilles should offer enough compensation for stretch.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:37 PM   #378
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You mean like these? Check out the specs.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#97125k51

These are smaller, but the I.D. would have to be reamed a bit for a 10mm stud
http://www.mcmaster.com/#97125k41

Interesting idea. I'll have to think about that one.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:48 PM   #379
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Quote:
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You mean like these? Check out the specs.
McMaster-Carr

These are smaller, but the I.D. would have to be reamed a bit for a 10mm stud
McMaster-Carr

Interesting idea. I'll have to think about that one.
The second would be better. Only have to open the ID .015" for a good fit. Yes, this is what I was talking about. Two back to back would give .030" deflection total which should be enough to compensate for any stud stretch. Put the two open cupped ends together.

They say temp up to +1,100. Is that enough?
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:55 PM   #380
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Stien,
Wow, alright, I'd be pretty amazed if they hold up, but if they do, they do. Of course, if the studs are stretching, you're realy going to want to go back and snug them up, but it might be enough to get you through a run.

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Go read this ENTIRE thread and watch the video I posted. They stretch enough that I can click my turbo back and forth independent of the manifold, and I can spin the washers I put behind the nuts. This is WITH safety wire.
Huh, ok, will go do that. Sorry, my bad. When you said the wires failed earlier, I thought you meant the wires broke. I'm most interested in the size - when I finally got my studs to stop spinning, they would always break. I had three methods
1) leave them a bit loose, before the yeild of the stud, and they come loose in ~3-5 weeks
2) tighten them so they don't spin, and they break in 2-3 months
3) Put them on a little loose, and tighten them a few times the first day, then once a day, then once every couple days. This breaks them in under a month.

The big studs just ALLOW you to have enough torque for the application without breaking the studs from the torque.

But I'm definitely checking out that video and doing some reading. Sorry guys for going over what already has been.

Quote:
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so BEGi tried but could not score space-shuttle studs and the best option available is grade-8 studs with resbond and stage-8 lock nuts. If the parts get here on Friday then I can get some track-time on Sunday to test it out.

I'm torn between trying again and dropping roughly $2000 on a v-band set-up that probably won't be ready for September. Any thoughts on what to do now?
I'd love more info on these "space shuttle studs" - since I buy bolts for space applications 9 to 5...


Last question: Why on god's green earth is welding a V-band on $2k??? The extra space means you need a new DP, etc?
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