EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning) - Page 16 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-13-2009, 12:14 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
My friend's Supra
I know tracked GT35R setups at 2 bar putting out well over 500bhp that don't use a gaskets and don't come loose. So back to square one.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:20 PM   #302
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Ask them what kind of fasteners they are using and use the same. Should fix the problem. If it doesn't, God hates Miatas.

/thread
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:25 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
My friend's Supra turbo uses gaskets between the turbine flange and the manifold flange... OEM. He beats the **** out of it and hit the dyno the other day, never has any problem w/ loosening nuts/studs. Granted, no trackdays yet, but as far as I know other turbo supras don't run into this problem either.

What if the OEM gaskets (copper?) are there to absorb the heat and expand, and since you guys aren't running them/any, the next quickest means of heat absorption is the studs/nuts.
You have to understand that there is a difference between tracking your car and competitively tracking your car. I've had my car on a very demanding track. These guys would smoke me. I'm not turning lap times that require pushing my car to its limits. At the moment I am running the car at my limits. They are running much much harder than your avg. enthusiast (correct me if I'm wrong). "Beating the ****" out of something is very relative to the size of the stick. Unless you can put up the lap times that your friend is turning at a given track; trying to make a comparison is probably useless.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:28 PM   #304
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I was just making a FWIW based on post #284.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:37 PM   #305
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I actually think that solaryellow has a valid argument. It's just hard to compare apples to apples when most cars aren't subjected the the abuse that savington and a few others put there cars through.

While the the sacrificial gasket theory sounds reasonable, how many factory MS miatas are put through major abuse?

If you use a copper gasket, the metal expands the gasket crushes saving the studs and nuts. What happens when it cools though? The gasket is still going to be crushed. Will you then have a leak while cold, or do you still constantly have to re torque nuts. If the later is the case, then you are still going to have to constantly replace gaskets to avoid the initial problem. You can only compress the gasket so much before it won't compress anymore.

Ok, enough sidetracking, back to solutions
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:31 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
Ask them what kind of fasteners they are using and use the same. Should fix the problem. If it doesn't, God hates Miatas.
/thread
As a reply to me? I have exactly what they have now and it fails here, not there. So no /thread, more like /Project84.

Oh, and God hates ***** according to some, so it is very probable that he hates Miatas too.

*) Westboro Baptist Church Home Page
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:14 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project84 View Post
My friend's Supra turbo uses gaskets between the turbine flange and the manifold flange... OEM. He beats the **** out of it and hit the dyno the other day, never has any problem w/ loosening nuts/studs. Granted, no trackdays yet, but as far as I know other turbo supras don't run into this problem either.

What if the OEM gaskets (copper?) are there to absorb the heat and expand, and since you guys aren't running them/any, the next quickest means of heat absorption is the studs/nuts.
Did you even read the thread? Lets face it, you did not. However, you did come into this 15-page masterpiece, skip over any pertinent information, and provided your worthless opinion. Sure, about a dozen comments were castigated for the same comment, but you still provided more bullshit that doesn't matter...rather than saving the caloric expenditure of a few key-strokes for something remotely useful.

Essentially you've taken Rick's bandwidth and raped it. Like a deviant you watched from a distance and selected the weakest of victims: a thread, all alone, cold, desperate for company with no activity in hours. You calmly approached, disarmed your prey with a comment, even showed your next lamb a good time, hell if you weren't a monster the two of you could have something; you also offered a consolation to remedy your alluring sin. However, you're a deviant predator...you want the power, and the only way to make you whole and to assume power is by slipping a little GHB in the thread's drink, dragging it into a dark, cold alley, and burning your ignorance into the collective cerebral cortex of every forum member...you sir have raped and you can never take that back. In just a matter of minutes you've taken this thread, raped its innocence in the street, and dumped the unconscious, beaten, helpless victim to pick up the pieces of its life. With any luck, suicide will remedy the pain you've inflicted...but will your victim have the will to end the suffering? Doubtfull, and you'll be on to your next thread, raping bandwidth again. Where do you go from here? Will you rape again, or spare us the pain? You can never take back the pain you've inflicted, but you can make this forum a better place.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:19 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Did you even read the thread? Lets face it, you did not. However, you did come into this 15-page masterpiece, skip over any pertinent information, and provided your worthless opinion. Sure, about a dozen comments were castigated for the same comment, but you still provided more bullshit that doesn't matter...rather than saving the caloric expenditure of a few key-strokes for something remotely useful.

Essentially you've taken Rick's bandwidth and raped it. Like a deviant you watched from a distance and selected the weakest of victims: a thread, all alone, cold, desperate for company with no activity in hours. You calmly approached, disarmed your prey with a comment, even showed your next lamb a good time, hell if you weren't a monster the two of you could have something; you also offered a consolation to remedy your alluring sin. However, you're a deviant predator...you want the power, and the only way to make you whole and to assume power is by slipping a little GHB in the thread's drink, dragging it into a dark, cold alley, and burning your ignorance into the collective cerebral cortex of every forum member...you sir have raped and you can never take that back. In just a matter of minutes you've taken this thread, raped its innocence in the street, and dumped the unconscious, beaten, helpless victim to pick up the pieces of its life. With any luck, suicide will remedy the pain you've inflicted...but will your victim have the will to end the suffering? Doubtfull, and you'll be on to your next thread, raping bandwidth again. Where do you go from here? Will you rape again, or spare us the pain? You can never take back the pain you've inflicted, but you can make this forum a better place.
Don't forget this is a miata forum. We love a good BW rapin'.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:02 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Did you even read the thread? You can never take back the pain you've inflicted, but you can make this forum a better place.
Hustler, you can have my babies. Also, I still like my nuts.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:31 AM   #310
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Basically, here are the rules this thread should follow

-If you don't own a Miata, don't post
-If you don't own a Turbocharged Miata, don't post
-If your friend has a turbo Miata but he hasn't had this problem, don't post
-If you don't track your turbocharged Miata, please don't post
-If you track your Miata, and you are slower than the Spec Miata record on the same track, and you don't have this problem, please don't post
-If you are reading this thinking about anything involving Nordlock washers, don't post

-If you are fast, and you have this problem, document your results and post
-If you are fast, and you think you might have solved this problem, document your solution and QUALIFY IT WITH LAPTIMES COMPARED TO A SPEC MIATA.

kthx
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:08 AM   #311
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Don't post if you have V-bands either
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:52 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Don't post if you have V-bands either
i want to be exempt from postings.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:54 PM   #313
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I'm just tired of seeing every 15th post be a worthless POS from someone whose friend has a 500whp supra, or "dam bro nordlocks worked 4 me".
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Old 07-14-2009, 04:03 PM   #314
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Quote:
-If you don't own a Miata, don't post
-If you don't own a Turbocharged Miata, don't post
-If your friend has a turbo Miata but he hasn't had this problem, don't post
-If you don't track your turbocharged Miata, please don't post
-If you track your Miata, and you are slower than the Spec Miata record on the same track, and you don't have this problem, please don't post
-If you are reading this thinking about anything involving Nordlock washers, don't post

-If you are fast, and you have this problem, document your results and post
-If you are fast, and you think you might have solved this problem, document your solution and QUALIFY IT WITH LAPTIMES COMPARED TO A SPEC MIATA.
woot! That's me! I'm about 8 seconds off the SM lap record, but I'm on street tires, cheap suspension, and my last trackday was my first on race pads, where I also had no power above 5000rpms. Despite what my sig says, bandaids FTL.

I just put in stainless steel Allen bolts with nord locks. Yes I know they don't work well, but I didn't know that till after I bought them and I figured if I have them I might as well use them. I used Allen heads so I can reach them easier, and stainless so hopefully they won't be heat treated as much. There's some kind of carbon build up on top of myanifold preventing it from being flat (or maybe a burnt up old gasket, mani & turbo are used), and a wire wheel wouldn't even take it off. So I do have a leak until I can get it milled flat, but my next track day is July 27th, well see how tight it stays.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:50 PM   #315
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Sav,

A question about us guys slower than spec records.

Compared to heavy cars, cars without r-comps and cars without aero goodies, is the additional throttle you can use in corners and higher terminal speeds that much more stress? If we're still running 100% as much as possible and redlining most shifts. Is our 30-40% cornering throttle that much less abusive than your 60%?

This may be ignorant, many of my questions are, but it is an honest question.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:31 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Sav,

A question about us guys slower than spec records.

Compared to heavy cars, cars without r-comps and cars without aero goodies, is the additional throttle you can use in corners and higher terminal speeds that much more stress? If we're still running 100% as much as possible and redlining most shifts. Is our 30-40% cornering throttle that much less abusive than your 60%?

This may be ignorant, many of my questions are, but it is an honest question.
I really have no idea what causes the issue in the faster cars. Is it the g-forces? Is it more time at higher RPM? Is it more time in boost, higher EGTs? Who knows. There seems to be a definite correlation to lap-times, though; the guys who are 15-20 seconds back on street tires don't have problems, but it seems once you get within 5-10 seconds of an SM, the issues begin to crop up, and once you're equal or faster, they are serious. We use SM times since they are consistently fast.

My first turbo track day, I had no issues with my setup at all. Even the second day, I don't think I had any issues.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:55 PM   #317
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Good to know and well explained. I can see how the additional throttle time and power in the corners combined with more aggressive and shorter braking distances could cause more heat soak. EGT's could be exactly the same but when you are applying max egt's 20-30% longer it could add up.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:33 PM   #318
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It's got to be thermal cycling, not just peak temp. Otherwise, you'd only have to go do one freeway top speed run to test your system.

When slowing, the turbo cools, when on the gas, it gets really hot. Certainly racing GSX-R's is the hottest I've ever gotten my system.


FYI, you can (carefully) belt sand a turbo pretty flat, faster/easier sometimes than getting it milled. How on EARTH are you getting to Allen's?? I guess it's not a GT-28.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:43 PM   #319
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It's a Greddy turbo and manifold, I can get to the two closest to the head, and the far front one. One of them is a straight shot, the other two require using an allen wrench with a ball end, and a breaker bar off the top to get enough torque. The one in the back is below the turbine casting and is still a hex bolt. That one actually was drilled out and heli-coiled by the previous owner to my surprise, yay. The allen's are m8x1.25, where as the 4th hole is a slightly coarser thread in a 3/8" size I believe, I just found a bolt out of my box 'o hardware that fit, definitely not metric though.

The other back one, although still m8x1.25, is also heli coiled. Honestly its a **** manifold with a warped head flange (there isn't any gap between the relief cuts any more, its a bitch to get off the head), has a bunch of carbon build up on the turbine flange, two heli-coiled holes, and on top of all that I don't think the greddy manifold ever flowed very well to begin with, so I might as well try a belt sander. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:13 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Basically, here are the rules this thread should follow

-If you don't own a Miata, don't post
-If you don't own a Turbocharged Miata, don't post
-If your friend has a turbo Miata but he hasn't had this problem, don't post
-If you don't track your turbocharged Miata, please don't post
-If you track your Miata, and you are slower than the Spec Miata record on the same track, and you don't have this problem, please don't post
-If you are reading this thinking about anything involving Nordlock washers, don't post

-If you are fast, and you have this problem, document your results and post
-If you are fast, and you think you might have solved this problem, document your solution and QUALIFY IT WITH LAPTIMES COMPARED TO A SPEC MIATA.

kthx
Since I qualify for keepin my mouth shut under several of these... I'll just sit in the corner over there ~~~>
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