EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning) - Page 45 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Prefabbed Turbo Kits A place to discuss prefabricated turbo kits on the market
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #881
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,329
Default

BTW - after Hustler and my identical failures I'm STRONGLY suggesting safety-wiring the turbine and compressor housing retention bolts on the turbo itself if you find a solution to this problem. If you weld the turbo, it will hold, and the next weak link seems to be those bolts.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2009, 03:22 PM   #882
Junior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 397
Total Cats: 9
Default

I am not metallurgist but would there be any benefit to cryotreating stainless steel studs before use, as I believe most of the stainless steels are austenitic, or would the repetitive high temps just temper the metal again?
kaisersoze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 11:05 PM   #883
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder View Post
No, sorry guys.

I was up till 2am getting my car ready but didn't get the new motor broken in till i got to the track friday morning. Wasn't tuned, couldn't drive it hard.

The good news tho. The one nut without resbond and without being a stage 8 failed first session still. The rest held tight all day.
Awesome result there, borders on definitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
ah well, thanks for caring enough to try it for me. I think the stage 8 might be the magic for its ease of R&R after a few laps though.
yeah, there's a lot to be said for that, if the studs stay in
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 06:11 PM   #884
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
I am having my nuclear Resbond delivered next week. Still need to inspect what the Nürburgring did to the studs/nuts. Depending on how bad it is I will redo it before next Thursday (another track day) or shortly after...
Er, which resbond is it? They make everything from spray on stainless steel to ceramic fiber sleeves for hoses. Is there a model number, or some information about it?
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 06:12 PM   #885
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,329
Default

Resbond 907TS.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 06:26 PM   #886
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Resbond 907TS.
Extreme Temp Thread Locker, Turbo Rated - 034 MOTORSPORT
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 09:55 PM   #887
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: south texas
Posts: 1,419
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Pics of your copycatism.
mine was usually just the upper left side bolt breaking or loosening. although last time it got loose, all the bolts were loose, and the upper left had broken again. so my turbo was open like a clam shell on top. anyway's, prior to this, i had used a longer, lower grade bolt, and it lasted 6 events! longest ever without even re-tightening. i also never checked it or tightened it hot. but when it broke it it left a little piece of stud in the manifold thread. with the miata challenge event coming up (texas) i went to a buddy and had him just weld the top and weld over the hole where the broken stud was. this is an old begi manifold from like '99 or 2000, and when that bolt is missing, hot exhuast gasses shoot right at my oil inlet line! when the other bolts back out, nothing (gasses) escapes. just the upper left hand, meaning the bolt is open or exposed to the full on heat coming from the manifold. are any of the new manifolds like this?

msr-h2009pics011.jpg

anyway's went to 2 events, 2 weekends in a row, and it's lookin' good for now. the other bolts are still tight also.

Last edited by spoolin2bars; 10-19-2009 at 09:57 PM. Reason: spelling/forgot link
spoolin2bars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 10:15 PM   #888
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 2,073
Total Cats: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolin2bars View Post
are any of the new manifolds like this?

My begi mani has 3 out of 4 stud holes going all the way through. Therefore it would let exhaust out of a stud hole if/when a stud would fall out.
thesnowboarder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 10:37 PM   #889
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder View Post
My begi mani has 3 out of 4 stud holes going all the way through. Therefore it would let exhaust out of a stud hole if/when a stud would fall out.
Ditto.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 07:24 AM   #890
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: south texas
Posts: 1,419
Total Cats: 9
Default

so that's why the studs/bolts are plastic deforming? the other bolts on my turbo have never broken. the upper right hand has backed out before, but that's probably only after the upper left had broken. that sucks. realistically, we wouldn't be having a problem if the manifold casting was done like it should have been. none of the other turbo cars i've had or have or have worked on have done this. but none of those had the flange designed like this. a friend and i double drove his civic w/ls swap and turbo on a 95deg. trackday. he had a china charger and a ebay manifold. drove the **** out of it, we were almost topping his car out on the frt. straight, about 140mph, every lap. but that manifold had the turbo bolts fully encased. that manifold even had the turbo mounted like ours, but with a little forward/downward angle to it.
spoolin2bars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 09:10 AM   #891
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoolin2bars View Post
so that's why the studs/bolts are plastic deforming?
It may help loosening when the wrong material is choosen.
In mine, all four holes protrude and it's still tight with 304 and tack welds.
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 10:19 AM   #892
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
BTW - after Hustler and my identical failures I'm STRONGLY suggesting safety-wiring the turbine and compressor housing retention bolts on the turbo itself if you find a solution to this problem. If you weld the turbo, it will hold, and the next weak link seems to be those bolts.
At this point NOT using a mechanical lock on parts exposed to engine harmonics is a mistake (aside from turbo/manifold hardware). This is why I bought a spool of ss and a spool of inconel safety wire.

You guys can keep telling yourself that castings are wrong, metalurgy is wrong, application is wrong...the reality is a mechanical lock on each vibrating fastener just like the way its done in big money racing. Pop the hood on an ALMS car, you'll see what I mean.

Last edited by hustler; 10-20-2009 at 10:30 AM.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 10:44 AM   #893
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
just like the way its done in big money racing.
You're over your head. IMHO two guys killing their 2871 TiAL turbo is no proof that we need Le Mans style fabribation on our $20k-ish track tools.

It's nothing short of a defect in TiAL housings tolerances and reusing fasteners.

My CHRA is still tight on the original housing (and I did take it off the other day). And I've done more track days with it than it took you and Sav to kill your turbo'z with the AbsurdFlow pr0n.

Excuse me while I go order some DBA friction rotors and XP12's cuz Im cookin' SRF like it ain't a thang.
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 11:07 AM   #894
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,366
Total Cats: 1,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post

Excuse me while I go order some DBA friction rotors and XP12's cuz Im cookin' SRF like it ain't a thang.
Either your car is really, really heavy, or you have other issues causing the soft pedal/boiling. I've NEVER boiled fluid in my car.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 11:15 AM   #895
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Either your car is really, really heavy, or you have other issues causing the soft pedal/boiling. I've NEVER boiled fluid in my car.
My car is def. alot heavier than yours. I mean, I still have door speakers, although no radio. Winter project...

I used to have air in the system (in that part ABS sucks) but my rotors are getting over 650C or 1200F so over a one hour session I see how the fluid could get over 300C or 572F, no?

Last session at Spa was virtually fade free however, but fluid is still brownish when I bleed afterwards so it's getting hot for sure.

I've removed the dust shields for now, hoping for better cooling and will finish full 3" ducts with blowers this winter. Just need adapter spindle plates.
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 10:42 PM   #896
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
You're over your head. IMHO two guys killing their 2871 TiAL turbo is no proof that we need Le Mans style fabribation on our $20k-ish track tools.

It's nothing short of a defect in TiAL housings tolerances and reusing fasteners.
I disagree. We drive just as hard longer, without service, and have less data than big baller endurance racers.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 05:04 PM   #897
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

My pedals got soft regularly, till I put my turbo sheild back on. was boiling the master cyl. :-)
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 05:57 PM   #898
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bellingham, Wa
Posts: 2,732
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
My pedals got soft regularly, till I put my turbo sheild back on. was boiling the master cyl. :-)
I'm pretty sure this is how I boiled my brakes last thursday at a track day. Boiled right out under the cap all over the shelf under the master. That and i'm a noob so i'm hard on brakes. Using super blue for the record.
wayne_curr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 10:30 AM   #899
Elite AbsurdFlow Member
 
Laur3ns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Enschede, NL
Posts: 2,058
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
My pedals got soft regularly, till I put my turbo sheild back on. was boiling the master cyl. :-)
Good point, I should check that!
Laur3ns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 12:57 PM   #900
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

what are the chances that our shitty motors are producing extreme harmonics that superior engines are not producing so they do not have this problem? Baby jesus is telling me to move on with my life, money, and hobby.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 12-13-2017 10:04 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
WTB MP62 (Hotside) (NB2) Rick02R WTB 3 01-03-2016 08:18 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 PM.