EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning) - Page 8 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-25-2009, 01:09 PM   #141
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I am guessing if snowboarder used resbond or something like it on the Stage-8 studs that they would have worked. That is why I am considering Stage-8 bolts and no resbond.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:35 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
snow, the point is to retighten a few times after a few street heat cycles. Every time I re-install my turbo mani, I see the need to do this.
The stage 8s have them tight. They did not loosen at all since they couldn't have turned to become loose. I am thinking the stud backed out of the mani and nut to the point of the little clip that falls over the nut couldn't hold the nut in place anymore. All happening in a 20 min session.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:44 PM   #143
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So you didn't do a few street heat cycles and re-tighten before hitting the track?

Seems to me the studs "break in" and stretch in the first few street heat cycles. I think they need to be re-tightened a few times after installation regardless of the use of stage 8 or safety wire.

If this is such a huge problem everyone would have loosening nuts. However some people don't. And no, they're not all slow. A buddy is an ex motorcycle racer and is pretty darn fast at Thunderhill and he hasn't had this persistent problem. This is the whole point of this thread, to try and figure out the differences between loosening and non loosening setups.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:57 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
So you didn't do a few street heat cycles and re-tighten before hitting the track?

Seems to me the studs "break in" and stretch in the first few street heat cycles. I think they need to be re-tightened a few times after installation regardless of the use of stage 8 or safety wire.
I did not re-tighten them, because they are still tight. I used these studs:
McMaster-Carr

I don't believe they stretched at all, however i have not taken them out and inspected them either so i could be wrong.

What setup does your friend have?
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:14 PM   #145
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I chose to go with the resbond and stage-8 nuts so I could retighten easily and see if that fixes it. Soon the truth will liberate me from pain, and most likely money from my checking account. However...I'd love to ***** pics of v-band/ss everything.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:18 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
A buddy is an ex motorcycle racer and is pretty darn fast at Thunderhill and he hasn't had this persistent problem. This is the whole point of this thread, to try and figure out the differences between loosening and non loosening setups.
What's "pretty darn fast" in lap times? I assume he's on R-comps?
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #147
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I chose to go with the resbond and stage-8 nuts so I could retighten easily and see if that fixes it. Soon the truth will liberate me from pain, and most likely money from my checking account. However...I'd love to ***** pics of v-band/ss everything.
Tray who did you buy your Stage-8 hardware from? FM? I need to get mine ordered.

This could be a good experiment. You guys take the resbond/stud/Stage-8 nut route, and I'll take the Stage-8 bolt only route, and see what works, pending some track day testing.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:41 PM   #148
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fm
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:43 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
Tray who did you buy your Stage-8 hardware from? FM? I need to get mine ordered.

This could be a good experiment. You guys take the resbond/stud/Stage-8 nut route, and I'll take the Stage-8 bolt only route, and see what works, pending some track day testing.
Summit, i got like 20 of them for like 5 more bucks than FM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:44 PM   #150
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Thanks
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:53 PM   #151
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What's "pretty darn fast" in lap times? I assume he's on R-comps?
Hoosier Daddy?! He turns faster than Spec Miata times in a full-weight street car with a turbo, at THill.

I take it you didn't re-tighten your safety-wire setup before hitting the track?
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:20 PM   #152
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Hoosier Daddy?! He turns faster than Spec Miata times in a full-weight street car with a turbo, at THill.

I take it you didn't re-tighten your safety-wire setup before hitting the track?
like .1 second faster or 9 seconds faster than the SM record?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:31 PM   #153
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SM record is a 2:05-2:06. You have a laptime or just benchracing bullshit?

On Hoosiers, he needs to be going 2:03s.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:35 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
SM record is a 2:05-2:06. You have a laptime or just benchracing bullshit?

On Hoosiers, he needs to be going 2:03s.
+1 on this

The guys that are driving 200whp cars and X sec under SM lap records can't be used to validate "turbo held on with two zip ties and a band aid and he's/I've never had a problem".

I'm suspicious of sources that offer solutions and have never been near a Miata that will beat an SM lap record, let alone built and driven one.

I get customer all the time that tell me they're making 250whp and never overheated on the track. Running stock 1.6 brakes and never faded. 205 street tires are "plenty of grip". I won't make any friends for saying it but those guys are just slow. Often 10-15 sec behind SM records so I tend to qualify all of their proposed fixes by nailing down just how much heat they're putting into the car.

A wingless 2500lb (with driver) streetable Miata with 225/45/15 Hoosier R6's at T hill w/cyclone is capable of about 2:01~2:02. Big difference in the thrashing a 2:12 car will receive.

/tirade

p.s. Double espresso in the evening does that to me
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:59 AM   #155
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IIRC he did under 2:10 years ago when the SM record at THill was ~2:09. I called him today and he did have loosening nuts and his solution was just "tighten the **** out of it". His old car felt around 220-230 hp - 15 psi 1.6 with WI and somewhat aggressive timing.

Sav and emilio, let's say for the moment that you 2 guys are "special" and that no studs and nuts will hold turbos on for you. But then for the rest of us mere mortals (which I suspect includes Hustler) there may be a simple solution to this problem. Such as pretorquing the studs using moly lube, and re-tightening the nuts a few times before hitting the track.

I called ARP to ask them about this and one of their guys gave a laughable response which I won't share because there are too many doubters in this thread. I'm not sure if I even want to try it as there are several other ideas in this thread I'd rather try.

Now, which of you poor bastards with loosening nuts pre-torqued the studs AND re-tightened the nuts after a few heat cycles before hitting the track?

I find it a bit hard to believe that this problem is so pervasive, yet FM for one, seem to find that Nordlocks are good enough for their cars on the track.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:23 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
IIRC he did under 2:10 years ago when the SM record at THill was ~2:09. I called him today and he did have loosening nuts and his solution was just "tighten the **** out of it". His old car felt around 220-230 hp - 15 psi 1.6 with WI and somewhat aggressive timing.



I find it a bit hard to believe that this problem is so pervasive, yet FM for one, seem to find that Nordlocks are good enough for their cars on the track.
2:10 isn't fast. And those last 5-10 seconds is where **** starts failing.

I don't find that hard to believe..... FM's cars aren't fast. Plain and simple.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:35 AM   #157
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yes, the track dog was all show and no go....

Although they did just start selling stage 8 hardware. And just a few dozen posts ago in this thread Keith said they're developing an even better product. So if Nordlocks are "good enough", why are the developing "better" products?

Aren't we all re-torquing the studs/nuts/bolts after a few heat cycles since they're coming loose? They're used at the track (aka heat cycled), where they come loose, and we're tightening them before the next track day. I don't think we're not all putting new hardware in once it loosens. I use bolts, and have had the same hardware in the manifold for a while, re tightening after each track day. I could do it during the track day, as the last session or two I can tell I've lost some performance and can hear the leak, but it's generally too much of a pain and not enough of a gain for me to do it. I've been so f'ing hot in my car the last two track days that I've gone home after the 3rd session, but that's with full 30 minute sessions running the heater full blast.
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:40 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
IIRC he did under 2:10 years ago when the SM record at THill was ~2:09. I called him today and he did have loosening nuts and his solution was just "tighten the **** out of it". His old car felt around 220-230 hp - 15 psi 1.6 with WI and somewhat aggressive timing.
Cool. My car tipped the scales at a little over 2500lbs with driver and had around 220whp as well. '99 1.8, 12psi, no water. I put it around Thunderhill on Nitto NT-01s in 2:03.7, on a day where my roommate's SM couldn't get under a 2:12 (he normally goes 2:10). And your friend STILL had hardware issues...


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Now, which of you poor bastards with loosening nuts pre-torqued the studs AND re-tightened the nuts after a few heat cycles before hitting the track?
I had a stud come out and another break at Thunderhill at the end of 2007. I then went 8 months without a track event. After upgrading to 10mm studs, I'm sure I retorqued them a few times and they were fine for quite a while - until I did my first session at WSIR in August of 08. Second session out and I was only getting 3 laps out of the hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
I find it a bit hard to believe that this problem is so pervasive, yet FM for one, seem to find that Nordlocks are good enough for their cars on the track.
No offense to Keith and Bill, but to be quite honest, their cars are slow. The only fast FM car that I know of is Sonny (VagaXT) - and he has the same ******* issues.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:12 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
I called ARP to ask them about this and one of their guys gave a laughable response which I won't share because there are too many doubters in this thread. I'm not sure if I even want to try it as there are several other ideas in this thread I'd rather try.

Now, which of you poor bastards with loosening nuts pre-torqued the studs AND re-tightened the nuts after a few heat cycles before hitting the track?

I find it a bit hard to believe that this problem is so pervasive, yet FM for one, seem to find that Nordlocks are good enough for their cars on the track.
Me. I torqued the studs then torqued the nuts with a crow-foot.

and I'm sorry, but if you're in a FI miata in any capacity and you're not turning laps faster than the SM record, you're not a man. How the hell do you take yourself seriously if a 140whp gay-dude is ***-raping you at 1/2 the power? I don't care, you're a power-bottom.

Hopefully I become a man in the next few weeks, but until then I plan on running a 1:32 in Johnfag's car at Hallett next weekend.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:06 PM   #160
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Oh puhleeze you guys with all your smack talk. Were you guys bullied when you were little? Does it make you feel more like a man when you say "I outlapped an LMP2 car even though my turbo fell out as I was passing him in the first corner"?

Hustler I know that some men who outwardly act gay-phobic are actually compensating for inner gay demons.

Sav, what you said illustrates one of my earlier points. You say one or your setups was fine at Thill then started loosening at WS big track. I said that the track will be bigger determinant of EGT than the driver.

Regarding your safety wired setup - did you retorque it before wiring?

So. Which of you mortal drivers have lots of issues noticed some tracks loosen nuts more than others?

BTW I realized my friend has always been using water injection. Maybe that helps.
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