EPIC nuts/studs loosening thread (reposting stupid stuff without reading = warning) - Page 58 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-08-2011, 01:26 PM   #1141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I have no pics of the bolts, but I got them from TiAL. I'm not sure who can get them but if you guys are interested I'll talk to my forum-buddy at TiAL and see if he will do another run of them. As far as I know I have the only set. They are not cheap though, $120 for the bolts and another $100 or so for EDM drilling.
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Hustler is talking about his CHRA hardware, which is sourced through TiAL and then drilled elsewhere...
$120 for 6 tial chra bolts + $100 to drill eh. I do it for $80+$80 (or $40 to drill if you've got a whole kit from me), assuming Hustler is talking about the chra bolts. But whatev.

As far as tial doing "another run of them", they are now the standard hardware supplied when you buy their SS vband turbine.
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #1142
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Does anyone have any track experience using 8mm inconel manifold to turbo studs? The efr 6258 turbine mounting holes are only big enough for 8 mm bolts, and bw hasn't responded to me about drilling out to fit 10 mm bolts affecting the warranty.
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:43 PM   #1143
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Originally Posted by jch13 View Post
Oh, there is no doubt that the washers I had sucked hardcore.

Why wouldn't you pick fasteners of essentially the same material as the flange to take thermal expansion out of the picture entirely?
OK ******** - go back and read the thread before we have ANOTHER 10 pages of discussion on exactly what we've discussed before.

Cast Iron isn't exactly an ideal fastener material...
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:50 PM   #1144
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Okay I'll start reading through it again but I've glanced through this thread a lot and haven't ever seen a track user running any 8mm inconel studs with stage 8 hardware.
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #1145
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Okay I'll start reading through it again but I've glanced through this thread a lot and haven't ever seen a track user running any 8mm inconel studs with stage 8 hardware.
I don't think fooger03 was talking to you. As far as I have heard no one has reported back about how well 8mm inconel studs work on the track use. As FM only just recently released them.

I am very interested in what BW says. Have you tried calling them and asking yet.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:02 PM   #1146
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I tried to email them, with no response. I'll probably try to call within the next week. Begi has some 8mm inconel bolts, ill check out the fm ones now
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:58 PM   #1147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
As far as tial doing "another run of them", they are now the standard hardware supplied when you buy their SS vband turbine.
And you cannot get much worse than the thread quality on tials inconel chra bolts. Under magnification it looks like they are cut twice...really crappy.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:58 PM   #1148
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Same material as in ductile iron?

Even if both flanges had the same coefficient of thermal expansion, you wouldn't want a stud with with the same CTE since they don't heat up at the same rate. It needs to be slightly lower.

Savington/TSE seems to have figured out what this number should be. The problem is, he doesn't sell 8mm hardware, only 10mm. The other problem is price.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:49 PM   #1149
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Savington/TSE seems to have figured out what this number should be. The problem is, he doesn't sell 8mm hardware, only 10mm. The other problem is price.
This. It's not something we discuss a lot, but this was the primary concern when we specified the alloy for our studs. It isn't hard to select an Inco alloy that has better high-temp 0.2% yield strength than mild/stainless, so we focused on getting a CTE that was as close as possible to the mild studs.

The price is what it is - the material is not cheap at all, and nobody will do small runs of the stuff unless you are willing to pay $60-$70/stud, which means I'm cutting a $xxxx check every time I need to order a set of studs. I think we do OK on price - slightly higher than BEGi but with better hardware and Resbond included, so you end up getting more bang for your buck. That's what we try and do in general with all of our parts - stay close on price, and offer a better product. Once you stretch a set of steel studs, the cost/benefit of lost track time vs. inconel studs quickly tilts in our favor.

I'm interested in doing a run of M8 hardware, and I think I could find 10 people to put a group buy together - the problem is that I have no way to test the stuff, which makes me nervous since we pride ourselves on only selling parts that we've personally used/tested.

Last edited by Savington; 07-08-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:52 PM   #1150
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Thanx again guys..I thought maybe Hustler was trying different material...
Same **** on another day.

*All the Noobs need to pay more attention to old post's. & listen when Sav or Tim say something!

" lets make studs out of cast "
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Old 07-10-2011, 03:05 AM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadsterTuner View Post
Hustler.
Can you post pics of the rolled thread studs u have and maybe give some insight on where you found yours?
thanx P I M P I N
If you're referring to the CHRA bolts, then these are the ones.

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Old 07-21-2011, 02:40 PM   #1152
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Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
looks like Dorman #292224. M10X1.5-52mm long would fit.

Bob
Awesome. Only, 52mm long? I just used 37 mm and they fit in fine. I'd probably rather have.... 40-45, but longer and I have to cut the ends off since it's so tight on the FM-II set up.

How did you find them? There was 10 pages of studs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Grade 8.8 has a 660 MPa yield strength

Grade 10.9 has a 940 MPa yield strength

They have the same elastic modulus; same dimensions Thus the same elastic spring rate. The difference in yield strength means 10.9 can be stretched 42% more than a 8.8 bolt before its yield point is reached resulting in permanent deformation.

Bob
Thanks for the sane answer here (not to discourage the thread, by and large it's been decent).

I haven't put the car together yet, and I've been happy with my plain ones, but I would love to get some 10.9's, just don't know where to find them.


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Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
$120 for 6 tial chra bolts + $100 to drill eh. I do it for $80+$80 (or $40 to drill if you've got a whole kit from me),
Um, why is drilling so expensive? I mean - are you doing something more interesting than a standard drill press? Not that you shouldn't charge for your time, but it sounds like Tial is electron drilling or something?

The first set I did with a freehand drill, the second with a drill press. Didn't seem to be any issues, finding a metric bottoming tap was the biggest challenge, about 4 minutes on McMaster-Carr.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:48 PM   #1153
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http://www.dormanproducts.com/catalo...ec17_Part1.pdf

If you ARE looking for studs, here's your choices - about halfway down, page "17"
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:00 PM   #1154
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Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Um, why is drilling so expensive? I mean - are you doing something more interesting than a standard drill press? Not that you shouldn't charge for your time, but it sounds like Tial is electron drilling or something?

The first set I did with a freehand drill, the second with a drill press. Didn't seem to be any issues, finding a metric bottoming tap was the biggest challenge, about 4 minutes on McMaster-Carr.
Hopefully you are talking about drilling tial Inconel CHRA bolts, but I doubt it because you mention tapping as well which we have no bizness doing to a tial turbine housing.

I charge what I do because drilling a .062" hole into 10mm deep Inconel is difficult for me to do and requires a somewhat expensive drill bit. And drilling one set of 6 takes up the vast majority of my lunch break and that doesn't make my tape worm happy.

Tial isn't doing any drilling anymore, hence me offering the service. Trey/Hustler used an EDM shop to do his.

If you are able to use less fancy tools to drill them then that's awesome, I'm sure it's possible but I wasn't able to figure an easier way to do it than how I do it now. I use a bridgeport and some pretty damn rigid tooling. I also tried & ruined "a bunch" of relatively expensive bits and $12 tial bolts before figuring a combo that works for me.

If anyone wants tial chra inconel bolts that cannot be safety wired cause there's busted drill bits stuck in them, I may have some.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #1155
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FWIW the only studs that have worked for me are inconel. I installed them with Resbond and added stainless cap head set screws to keep them from unthreading from the flange. I used Nord locks under self locking nuts. The turbo flange hasn’t budged in a year and a half now and prior to that I was lucky to make a single track day with a any other material or grade of stud. I got one of the early sets of inconel studs from BEGI.

A couple of my cap head set screws have broken off and I recently had 3 of the 4 downpipe flange studs that were non Inconel snap in two but the turbo has stayed attached to the manifold finally for a reasonable amount of use.

Bob
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:27 PM   #1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
Um, why is drilling so expensive? I mean - are you doing something more interesting than a standard drill press? Not that you shouldn't charge for your time, but it sounds like Tial is electron drilling or something?
You are perilously close to getting eaten alive for not reading the entire thread.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:17 PM   #1157
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I picked up Trackspeeds 10mm Inconel stud/ Stage 8 kit. First of all - awesome product, great customer service, and fast shipping.

I took the car out for a half day at Road Atlanta a few weekends ago and afterwards noticed that the studs appear to be backing out (heh - at least the problem with the nuts loosening is resolved . Has this happened to anyone else that has installed these? Any recommendations on a fix? I'm thinking that maybe I didn't use enough Resbond?

I have the downpipe brace from FM that I haven't installed yet - maybe that will help.

Here's a pic - note the exposed length of the stud on the bottom left and top right as compared to the top left.

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Old 08-11-2011, 05:14 PM   #1158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickt93 View Post
I picked up Trackspeeds 10mm Inconel stud/ Stage 8 kit. First of all - awesome product, great customer service, and fast shipping.

I took the car out for a half day at Road Atlanta a few weekends ago and afterwards noticed that the studs appear to be backing out (heh - at least the problem with the nuts loosening is resolved . Has this happened to anyone else that has installed these? Any recommendations on a fix? I'm thinking that maybe I didn't use enough Resbond?

I have the downpipe brace from FM that I haven't installed yet - maybe that will help.

Here's a pic - note the exposed length of the stud on the bottom left and top right as compared to the top left.

How much Resbond did you use? I know when I installed mine I made sure I used it all. I never did the car on the track with them though.

Also you going to be at the endless summer event at CMP in Septemeber?
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:22 PM   #1159
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nickt93, looks like you just didn't use enough Resbond on the stud. This is a testament that the Resbond, not included in the others kits, is essential to completely solve the issue. The stud material solves the stretching/deformation, stage 8s solve the nuts from backing off, and Resbond holds the studs in from vibration. Resbond also recommends a 24 hour curing time at 75*F or a 1 hour cure time at 250*F.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:37 PM   #1160
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Make sure the Resbond is coming out of the container red, too - it should resemble blood. Give us a call if you need some help.
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